Yet Another Fuel Leak: 1995 Camry LE Four

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    I've been away from the group for a while, but our Camry sedan
apparently thinks it's been too long... anyway, the above car has had
the fuel tank and filler pipe replaced in the last 7 months, and now it
has another fuel leak. This one is right under the engine, apparently on
the driver's side.

    I figured it was a fuel line, because the #@!@# dealer who ripped us
off on the other repairs (not looking at the filler pipe before
replacing the gas tank, and then charging labor again to replace the
pipe) had noted - without saying so verbally - on the last receipt that
the fuel lines were rusty. So we just brought the car to another Toyota
dealership, who were unable to find the leak until they returned the car
to the lot - I'd noticed that the leak only starts after the fuel system
gets pressurized, and lasts until the pressure presimably falls again.
They *think* it's the evaporative canister, but don't know. We pulled
the car from them after paying $46 for a $1500 estimate to have all the
fuel and brake lines, plus the canister for good measure, replaced. The
car is now at an independent NAPA-afiliated shop awaiting diagnosis.
Now, finally, my questions:

*  Can a charcoal canister start to leak substantial quantities of
gasoline without the check engine light coming on and a code being
stored? I thought maybe the check valve had failed and it was filling
with gas, but wouldn't that produce an error code and warning light?

*  What else in that location, aside from the fuel line, could be
leaking gas under the conditions mentioned?

*  What's a reasonable price for replacement of all the fuel lines? How
about most or all of the brake lines?


    And yes, I wanted to replace the car, which now has 171k miles on
it, two years ago, when it just starting to 'feel its age.' My
housemate, who mainly drives it, is attached to it.

Re: Yet Another Fuel Leak: 1995 Camry LE Four


On Sep 7, 6:56 pm, "mjc13<REMOVETHIS>"
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Dealers are rip offs, go to an independant and get a bid.  I paid 150
US for fuel and return lines from tank to filter. at this point
inspect carefully BRAKE lines, both are in the same area and usualy
fail around the same time frame. My Brake line failed first, in a snow
storm going around a corner. 2 years later fuel lines went, I used
Rubber fuel lines, it saved me hundreds.


Re: Yet Another Fuel Leak: 1995 Camry LE Four


ransley wrote:

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    I'm kind of leery of rubber fuel lines, but if steel is really
expensive, and we have do brake lines as well, we'll consider it.

    The shop that will be looking at it tomorrow said that they recently
replaced the brake and fuel lines on a '93 Buick for $400. Anyone know
if this layout is similar...? We could definitely live with that price
for all the lines.

Re: Yet Another Fuel Leak: 1995 Camry LE Four


Steel lines can obviously withstand higher pressures. Steel lines are
often nickel or copper plated for corrosion resistance. However,
better brake lines are said to be copper nickel alloy pipes for better
corrosion resistance and they are easier to work than steel lines.

You probably shouldn't substitute any rubber fuel line for it. Most of
the rubber fuel lines in parts stores don't even have the teflon (?)
barrier inner tube for low pressure fuel injection systems and are
meant for carbureted engines only.

Well, you should probably find the leak first before starting to
replace lines. Unless leak detection marked the lines as the culprit.
I'd fix one problem at a time.




On Sep 7, 8:15 pm, "mjc13<REMOVETHIS>"
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Re: Yet Another Fuel Leak: 1995 Camry LE Four


snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

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      Well, that's the plan, obviously - the car is leaking gasoline
whenever it runs, and for at least 20 minutes afterwards. Now, how about
my questions about the evaporative canister: can it leak and not produce
a code? Why haven't I been able to find any posts in any forums that
link leaking gas to a bad canister...?



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Re: Yet Another Fuel Leak: 1995 Camry LE Four


Even the newer Toyotas aren't very good at pin pointing problem with
OBD-II codes. That's why people shouldn't replace catalytic converters
when P0420 shows up. In general these codes point to a general area
and need to be verified. According to a Toyota tech, an oxygen sensor
problem can even set a cooling system code! Sheesh.

Evap canister in pre-97 models are in the engine bay. After 97+ are on
the rear "axle". There were problems with the 97+ canisters' interval
check valves and the disintegration of charcoal, but haven't read
anything on those leaking liquid gasoline.

The canister is supposed to hold vapor. But over-filling with gas
(like repeated filling after the pump clicks off to add a couple of
ounces) can flood the canister. Or if the canister isn't venting to
the engine properly, but it's hard to think that it will drip a lot of
gas.

The evap system is fairly passive. But you might want to get the tech
to check purge flow and see if it's venting vapor.



On Sep 7, 8:41 pm, "mjc13<REMOVETHIS>"

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Re: Yet Another Fuel Leak: 1995 Camry LE Four


snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:
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    Thanks. I'm hoping it's just a pinholed fuel line.


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Re: Yet Another Fuel Leak: 1995 Camry LE Four


It's too bad we hear all these horror stories about poor Toyota techs.
There are just too many of them around. I personally believe that many
of them actually don't have a good understanding of automotive systems
to make a good diagnosis.

You should add some fuel system UV dye and use a UV light to see where
the leak is. If you have mechanically inclined friends or a reputable
local mechanic should be able to help.

It may be a leaky gasket in the fuel pressure regulator or pulsation
damper, a loose connection in the fuel filter area, or a pin hole in
the fuel line.

http://www.autobarn.net/fluorleakdet1.html



On Sep 7, 4:56 pm, "mjc13<REMOVETHIS>"
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Re: Yet Another Fuel Leak: 1995 Camry LE Four


snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:
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    Thanks for the ideas. I don't do much shadetree wrenching anymore
(although ironically I just replaced the headlights on our Camry wagon
yesterday) but I'll see if I can pass the info on to the mechanics. I
agree about the techs; dealers can be the best place to go for
comprehensive scheduled services, but when it comes to diagnosis, they
are either bad or crooked...



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