1990 4Runner Stalling Mystery (Sorry, kind of long)

Hello,

I posted a message here a while ago about how my 1990 4Runner SR5 V6 (~160k) had been stalling out on me regardless of whether the engine was hot or cold, but never really got any definitive replies, so I'm going to try again with what's currently happening to it.

Originally, the problem began after I had the valve cover gaskets replaced. In the process, they had to replace other parts that were associated with the removal of the intake manifold, which many 4Runner owners know has to be removed just to get at the passenger side valve cover gasket. You can hardly even see it. No problem with that, as I had expected that some of the parts wouldn't survive being removed due to their age and condition. One part that comes to mind was the EGR valve. In any event, the vehicle seemed better afterwards until I started experiencing the stalling out problem. Regardless of the engine temperature, the engine would stall and then be difficult to restart for several minutes. We're talking 3, 4, or perhaps 5 minutes here. Maybe even more in some instances.

I brought the vehicle back to the original mechanic, who had replaced the valve cover gaskets, to have him "check it out" for several days, only to tell me that it only happened to him once and that I should bring it back if it happened again. I could see that I wasn't going to get anywhere with him.

The vehicle sat for a while until I found another mechanic, by word of mouth, who was supposed to be good at diagnosing these types of problems. I made the mistake of giving him plenty of time to "diagnose" the problem. That allowed him to treat it as a non-priority repair, so he didn't do much. He said that he pulled a couple of codes that really didn't mean anything, but that my real problem was that the vehicle was getting old. I guess that nowadays some "mechanics" can only repair new vehicles. To make matters worse, he mentioned that my brakes were low and that they hadn't done anything in regard to them, even though they were fine when I brought the vehicle there. By the time I got down the block, I had no brakes. It turns out that I had lost one of the steel brake lines. Totally unconscionable! Anyone in their right mind would point that out and tell you that it had to be fixed before you could take the vehicle back. So, I added him to by ever-growing list.

After some more time had passed, I got yet another referral from an acquaintance of mine, who happens to be very meticulous. I figured why not go with his guy, after all, if the guy fixes his vehicles and he's so particular then the guy must be good. I had the vehicle towed to his shop and there it sat. Seeing as how I was getting nowhere, I had the vehicle towed back to my house. Later on I discovered that all I got for my trouble was a broken tail light in the deal. My guess is that when the vehicle was at the shop someone must have hit it. Unfortunately, too much time had gone by since I had it towed back from his shop and it would have been my word against his.

By this time the vehicle that I had been using as a replacement was starting to have its own problems, so I had a pressing need to get the 4Runner repaired. I had it towed to the guy who had replaced the valve cover gaskets. He replaced 2 steel brake lines and the master cylinder. No problems there.

I still expected to have the stalling out problem though and I was right. The only difference now was that I was getting a "check engine" light on the dash. With that, I decided to bring it to the local Toyota dealer. They had it for almost a week and replaced the spark plugs and cleaned out the carbon somewhere. At that point, they told me that they weren't getting the "check engine" light any longer, but that it still wasn't quite right and that they felt that they should replace the wires, cap, air filter etc. It couldn't hurt, so I figured why not. I realize that it was probably just a bit of up sell, but at that point I didn't care as long as I got it back repaired. When I got the vehicle back it did seem to be okay. That was until I had to drive it for a long period of time. After about 15 minutes of driving in the snow on one of the local highways, I got stuck right in a lane of traffic while slowing down. It took long enough to get it started that I had visions of being stuck with a dead battery. Contrary to my understanding of fuel injected engines, I held the pedal to the floor and eventually got the engine started again. All totaled, the engine stalled 5 times on my drive. The next day it only stalled once though.

Back to the dealer's last Monday and they haven't been able to have it happen or find out anything. Today makes it one week. I do appreciate the fact that, in spite of the round about tune up, they aren't just throwing parts at it at my expense. The down side is that no one can figure out what's happening and that I don't feel safe driving it. What if it fails while pulling out across a lane of traffic?

So, to sum it up, it appears that the vehicle stalls upon deceleration and is hard to start afterwards. Does anyone in the group have any ideas or suggestions? I apologize for the long winded post. Thanks in advance to those who post a reply. If I learn of anything I'll post it here just in case anyone else has a similar problem.

Peter.

Reply to
Peter Bogiatzidis
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If the problem started after the valve cover gasket repair you should have brought it back to him until he fixed it. It does seem like an intermittent problem and it's possible that it did not act up for him the first time you brought it back.

It also seems like you are searching for shops by price. Try to find a shop that is competent enough to do the job and is familiar with that type of vehicle. The price may be a little higher but you usually get what you pay for.

When you bring your vehicle to a shop to have it repaired don't assume that because it wasn't repaired right the first time that they can't fix it. If it is an intermittent problem or one that is tough to track down it may require several trips back. When you jump from shop to shop nobody knows what the last guy did and it makes it that much harder to repair.

You don't make it clear if you have the vehicle back or it is still at the dealer's. If they have had it for a week and can't duplicate the problem go pick it up and drive it . If it still acts up then bring it back to them and let them know it's still not fixed. You should also let them know the history of this problem if you haven't already done so. You also don't say exactly what has been done to try and correct this problem by the other shops. Did they replace any parts or make any adjustments ?

A few possibilities come to mind as to what you might want to look at. When the valve cover gaskets were replaced the intake plenum had to be removed. Were all the vacuum lines reconnected properly. Check for misrouted or disconnected vacuum lines. You may have a sticker under the hood that has a diagram of the vacuum line routing. If not a chiltons manual may have it. You also mentioned that the EGR valve was replaced. The symptoms you are describing could also be caused by an EGR valve that is sticking open. Did they use some cheap, no name parts?

You may also want to take a ride with the person who is actually going to be working on your vehicle. Drive it until it acts up so that they can see exactly what it is doing and when it acts up.

One more thought. You mentioned that the vehicle has been sitting for some time now. For how long?? Gas can go bad if it sits too long. Is it possible that you may have some bad gas OR that you have some water in the gas from condensation ? Water in the gas would also cause symptoms similar to what you are experiencing.

Reply to
Mike

I second what Mike said. There is an absolute assload (a Toyota quantification) of vacuum lines on that engine, and it took me several tries on the first couple of those engines to get them right. Your stalling while decelerating is a classic symptom of an EGR valve hanging open too long. And how about the coil? Anyone check the primary and secondary ignition systems? Maybe on an engine analyzer? You know, the best condition for the shop to get their hands on your truck is when or right after it fails. I've told more that a few of my customers with irritating intermitent engine failure problems to drive the car 'til it quits, pull over, and call a tow truck instead of restarting it. Its tough to find a problem if the engine is running, you know? Good luck, and post if you figure anything out.

Reply to
qslim

Mike,

I did bring the vehicle back to the original shop that had replaced the valve cover gaskets and they had it for almost a week. The outcome, they said, was that it only happened to them once and that I should "bring it back if it happens again". I understand their point of view, but, the reality of it all is that I could not afford to have the vehicle tied up for days on end only to be told that they were unable to fix it.

I'm sorry if you got the impression that I was shopping price. I wasn't. I was desperately looking for someone who could actually "fix" the problem with the vehicle and thus relied upon word of mouth recommendations. That was how I thought I could find a "competent" shop.

I agree that going from shop to shop isn't the right way to go about things, but I was getting desperate and really needed to have the vehicle fixed.

At the time I wrote this the vehicle was still at the dealers. The very day that they returned it to me I got stuck 5 times. It happened to be a Saturday and we were in the middle of a snow storm. I got by on Sunday with only 1 stall out. On Monday I called the dealer to explain the situation and was told to bring the vehicle back that day. I did so right away. Initially, the dealer had only replaced the spark plugs and cleaned out some carbon deposits somewhere. They then called me to ask my permission to go further and replace the wires, cap, air filter etc.( basically, a tune-up). It had probably been a while since these had been replaced, so I gave them the go ahead. That brings us to the Saturday that they returned the vehicle. I should also mention that when I got stuck that day the check engine light lit intermittently.

After returning the vehicle on that Monday, the dealer called me on Wednesday to inform me that they still hadn't found anything. We went over in great detail exactly what the conditions were when the problem occurred. It became apparent that the vehicle was stalling out upon deceleration. A week and a half later, after they escalated the problem to the shop foreman, I got the vehicle back. They wound up replacing the coolant temperature sensor. The vehicle has been running great. Even better than I can remember. So chalk one up for the dealer. I appreciate the fact that they didn't just throw parts at it at my expense. The second time around they only charged me for the temperature sensor without any labor. I have to say that this experience has changed my opinion of dealers.

I would also like to mention that the second guy who looked at the vehicle, and that's probably all, did mention replacing the temperature sensor. The problem is that he didn't seem to want to fix anything. If he had thought that changing the sensor would correct the problem, based upon his experience, then why not offer to do so? Keep in mind that this is the same guy who told me that my brakes were low and that he didn't do anything to them, only to have them fail a block away from his shop. Not even an offer to fix them. I guess that he only works on new vehicles that need oil changes or the tires rotated. It's hard to find a good mechanic nowadays.

Thanks to those of you who responded here. I hope that others can benefit from my experience.

Peter.

unconscionable!

intermittent

Reply to
Peter Bogiatzidis

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