Brake Warning Light and Charge Light - totally strange

Hey everyone, Well my brother is a good mechanic, and he was even stumped by this one.

I have an 86 22R. Just recently, the charge light and the brake warning lights (both of them, simultaneously) have been flickering on and shutting off again. Sometimes they flutter on and off, but today they came on and stayed on for a few minutes or more and then shut off again. Its always both lights.

The problem is definitely electrical, because if I have my radio on it will shut off completely and pop back on when the lights shut off. Also, what is really strange is that if I have my heater on and the lights come on, the heater blows stronger.

I have checked my battery cables and the battery posts look fine. Truck starts perfectly every morning and battery stays charged. I've had an alternator overcharge a battery and blow it up before, but this is different. The warning lights don't effect the engine at all, and they seem to come on for no reason (they'll come on when im at idle, running in high gear or low, whatever)

I can't check the charge on the alternator because I don't have the equipment (poor college student stuck solving my problems with a 50 piece craftsman tool set and no garage or equipment).

I'm hoping someone will tell me what to take a look at before I am stuck somewhere trying to walk to a checker 5 miles away to buy a battery.

Please help!

Lisa, Colorado

Reply to
LisalouLiLRed
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The first thing to check is the brushes in the alternator - the lights all popping on at once is a classic symptom. (This is a recording...) ;-)

Go spend another $20 to $50 on a simple digital Volt-Ohmmeter that you can use to monitor the battery voltage - it will last you many years and get you out of many scrapes if you treat it nicely. (Buy a nice $5 plastic toolbox to keep it in, so it doesn't get crushed by heavy stuff in the car trunk.)

If the engine is turning above 2,000 RPM the electrical system voltage should hold pretty steady at 13.00 to 14.50 volts DC - 13.80 volts is the target at IIRC 72 degrees F, but the proper system voltage varies due to ambient temperature (hotter = higher) to match the proper float charge voltage of the car battery.

If the voltage drops off to under 12.5 volts when the warning lights pop on, and the voltage then jumps back up when the lights go out, it's the alternator brushes wearing out. It will get worse in a hurry till you have a dead battery and a no-start situation.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

The idiot light behaviour you describe is most likely due to failed alternator brushes. Since you are cash strapped, recommend you surf over to the Australian Surf Owners website and look for the fix page. Surf is the Japanese version of 4Runner. I bought a set of new brushes from an auto parts store here in Japan where I live and it cost me 300Y ($2.80) to fix. It's about a 1 hour job for a novice but surely beats spending a couple of hundred dollars on a new alternator. I'm told in the US you can buy the brushes prepacked in the bakelite retainer for around $12 which will cut your labor time in half. Best wishes.

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Bubba

Reply to
Bubba

If the brake and charge lights come on during revving of the engine then it's a sign that the carbon alternator brushes require replacing as this is the mileage for them to wear out.In alternators the brushes wear out on average every 140-170 000 miles where on the dashboard the brake & charge light both come on at the same time.About half of the auto electric shops in your local yellow pages sell carbon alternator brushes and copper solenoid starter contacts for about $5/pair.Another way to verify that the alternator is not charging is while the engine is running bring a metal screwdriver or any metal object near the alternator and if the alternator is working properly then it should act like a magnet and grab the screwdriver.

For carbon brushes R&R:

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For decoding the dashboard lights:

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Here are part #'s for Toyota alternator carbon brushes and copper solenoid starter contacts which are used in about 95% of all Toyota vehicles.

Toyota alternator Brushes with holder:

Toyota # 27370-35060=$29

Alternator brush only (qty:1 brush unless otherwise stated):

AC Delco # E724,E731 (side wire and concave tip) Ace Electric # DA-61 (brush only),S-5367 (brush holder) Beck Arnley # 178-1669 (side wire and concave tip) Beck Arnley # 178-1376 Borg Warner # X580 (side wire and concave tip) Canadian Tire # 19-2050-6=$4.49/pair Daihatsu # 27370-87302-000 Daihatsu # 27371-63020-000 Daihatsu # 27371-87501-000 Daihatsu # 27371-70300-000 Echlin # E601=$8.16/pair (UAP/NAPA) Echlin # ECHE601 Echlin # EC480 Echlin # ECHE480 GP Sorensen # 255047 (side wire and concave tip) GM # 94123056 GM # 96054118 Honda # 31144-PD1-004=$9.72 Honda # 31144-PD1-0040 Honda # 31144-PD1-0030 Honda # 31150-PR7-A01 Honda # 31150-PTO-003 Hino Industries # 021660-0390 Hino Industries # 021660-0510 Isuzu # 8-94123-056-0 Isuzu # 8-97032-308-0 Isuzu # 8-97032-310-0 Mazda # 021660-0390 Mazda # 021660-0510 Mazda # KL47-18-W75 Mileage Plus # E601SB Mitsubishi # MD604474 Mitsubishi # 21660-0510 Niehoff # WA571 (side wire and concave tip) NipponDenso # 021660-0390 NipponDenso # 021660-0510 Standard # JX-116 (side wire and concave tip) Subaru # 021660-0390 Subaru # 021660-0510 Suzuki # 31631-82610 Suzuki # 31656-82611 Suzuki # 021660-0510 Toyota # 27370-42010 Toyota # 27370-75060 Toyota # 27371-63020=$5.80 (up to 9105) (side wire and concave tip) Toyota # 27371-70300=$5.20 (9105-9511) UAP/NAPA # MPEE601SB Victory Lap # FAX57=$4.49/pair (Canadian Tire) Wilson's Electric # 26-29-7534 (side wire and concave tip)=$2.20 each (Diesel Auto Electric)(Parts for Trucks,box of 10 for $3.40)

Specifications: Length=15 mm Width=7 mm Thickness=5 mm Lead length=49 mm

5 starter repair sites:

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Starter contact kits:

Toyota # 28226-72010/80 (battery side) Toyota # 28226-72080(8808-9108) Toyota # 28226-16130(9108-9308) Toyota # 28226-55050(9308-9511) Toyota # 28226-70040(9308-9511) Toyota # 28226-72040 (motor side if needed) Toyota # 28226-72010(8808-9511) Toyota # 28226-74070(9108-9511) Toyota # 28226-54220 (Diesel Surf 2.4TD) Toyota # 28226-54250 (Diesel Surf 2.4TD, contains a new end cover and gasket)

Starter contacts only:

Toyota # 28226-70040 Wilson's Electric # 45-29-652

Starter brushes:

AC Delco # D762 GP Sorensen # 255048 Standard # JX-117

Whether your starter uses two rectangular types or one rectangular and one crescent you can substitute with two squares or one square and one crescent so any of the above part #'s for those kits will be the right ones,or about half of the auto electric shops in your local yellow pages would sell aftermarket contacts for only $5 each or the pair.

Sidney Repairs tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home E-mail: snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com Dartmouth,Nova Scotia Canada

1985 Toyota 4-Runner,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 241 000 KM
Reply to
Sidney

Thanks everyone, very interesting. One thought though, that alternator is almost brand new, maybe about a year old. Instead of going in and replacing the brushes, should I get my receipt and warrantly and go get a new alternator?? It maybe has 10K on it.

Just so Ive got this straight....the brushes are worn out, so when the alternator goes to charge the battery while im driving, the lights come on?

Replaced my old alternator about a year ago, it got water in it somehow and supercharged my optima battery, which proceeded to blow up and spew black gook all over my truck (ruined my paint). It was an experience. :-)

Thanks again!

Lisa

Reply to
LisalouLiLRed

Yes get your receipt and get a new one.No the lights don't come on when you drive when the batt is charging,just read your owner's manual and the links I provided.Your old original alternator got water exposed on the internal voltage regulator and fried it.

Sidney Repairs tv's,vcr's,home/car audio out of my home E-mail: snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com Dartmouth,Nova Scotia Canada

1985 Toyota 4-Runner,22R-E,W56,RN60LV-MSEK,rusted rear step/towing chrome bumper with 241 000 KM
Reply to
Sidney

Guys, every time I come on here and seek a solution to my problem, you all are right on! Bravo!

Anyway I went and got an exchange for that alternator and put it in. That fixed the problem, no more lights, and is charging between 13-14 volts. I have to admit it was a little intimidating at first, my dad and my brother are off hunting this week, so I was on my own for this one. I was an alternator virgin, but thanks to my manual I got everything done correctly. I love my Toyota, its been a great truck, but why do I have to take apart 6 things before I can fix the one that's broken?

Thanks again!

Lisa, Colorado

Reply to
LisalouLiLRed

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