Dealer forgot to put the "Oil" in my Oil Change!

You're conveniently eliding over the fact that a new, well maintained Toyota engine is good for _many_ times the warranty term. (That's one of the reasons we all buy Toyotas in the first place.) If that engine's life has been foreshortened by the carelessness of the service department, the customer should not have to pay for that by having to replace the engine at, say 120K, instead of the 200+K he _would_ have gotten out of it.

His warranty doesn't do him a damn bit of good unless the engine fails while it's _in_ warranty. IOW, he's not protected from *latent* defects, caused by the dealer's negligence, that don't appear until after the warranty expires. Jeez, even Chevy engines will last _that_ long...

Tom S

Reply to
Tom S
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Rick: What would you consider prudent?

I would think the minimum would be to have a technician drop the oil pan, pop off a few main bearing caps and connecting rod caps, Plastigage them for wear and look for signs of scoring. Take a look inside before writing it off as "No Damage".

And get a letter from the dealer admitting they goofed, and stating that if your engine packs it in early they will pick up part of the tab. Probably won't be worth the paper it's printed on by the time you have trouble, but you never know...

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

I appreciate all the comments and/or feedback. Some good information here! I contacted Terry Dyson (Dyson oil analysis & race car guy) out of Greenville, Texas. He seems to think I probably didn't do any damage to the engine, but an oil analysis would be helpful down the road. I also like the idea of certified mechanic of my choosing (not in the back pocket of the dealer) to inspect the bearings etc....

The Service Director's attitude was cavalier! He questioned how I knew there was only 2 - 2 1/2 quarts in it...quickly adding, "that's only an estimate." I told him NO, I WAS THERE and had the mechanic drain the oil in a clean, measurable container, so I know exactly how much oil was in the engine. He quickly dismissed that and insisted the truck engine was fine and sarcastically said, "be sure and document what I said." I said how do you know the engine is "fine", and he said, "they started it, didn't they". Boy, I like to do an oil change on one of his brand new vehicles!!!

-Jay

Reply to
Jay McGranahan

The first thing to be scuffed would be the connecting rod bearings. If they are perfect, then all else is probably perfect too.

Reply to
MDT Tech®

Bruce, that is exactly what our shop wopuld do and I assume any dealer worth his oats would also do. Take a couple of pictures also to add to his folder/file.

Reply to
MDT Tech®

Jay I think you need to talk to the service managers boss and if his attitude is the same contact Toyota Corporate, as I don't think they would tolerate this kind of behavior. They have more control over the dealerships and how customers are treated than the domestics do.

Reply to
davidj92

And if that doesn't work, tell him your tired of his smart ass attitude and invite him out back for a good of fashioned ass whuppin!

Reply to
Jack Dotson

I think I would be satisfied with an extended, complete coverage, no deductible, transferable, national warranty to at least 100K. (And happy if it included a service plan, e.g., free oil changes every 3months/3K for the duration of the extended warranty.) Of course I will always check my oil, oil filter before driving anywhere!

-Jay

Reply to
Jay McGranahan

couldn't agree more. best response in whole thread! as for it not hurting engine, I know toyota isn't going to agree with that remark when it comes time to fix/replace something under warranty, whether or not it did happen at one of their own dealerships. I would get a lawyer now and at minimum get 100k warranty with the mishap documented in warranty. After a couple of years where rods are knocking at 60k, it will be next to impossible to get toyota to cover anything. I love toyota vehicles, have had

4 and just bought 03 tacoma, but I have also never been able to get anything major fixed under warranty, always seemed to have some way to weasel out of it. besides, if there is no damage, a 100k warranty for a toyota should be very low risk for dealership, never known a toyota that couldn't go that far.

Reply to
jb

What happened to the "whole thread"? I had some good advice/comments here and it seems to have disappeared! What happened to all the posts? Toyota/Toyota pressure have a hand in this??

-Jay

Reply to
Jay McGranahan

It's all there, go look through the archives on Google (the old DejaNews archives) - they have old usenet posts going back ~20 years. Your newsreader and/or the servers you connect to expired the old articles in the thread.

I use Forte Agent

formatting link
and keep all the messages on my own hard drive (set to 'keep all messages' and not expire them for a month, and they can be kept permanently by marking them), so the rest of the thread stays available for reference.

You can probably set the program you use (which looks to me to be Outlook Express) to do the same - keep all the 'read messages' on your hard drive for a set length of time, rather than just delete them after reading. Go tiptoe through the options menus.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

All usenet posts are archived at google:

Just look for the subject line and the whole thread is there.

Reply to
zach

Oops, there they are! I'm using the outlook news reader....thanks!

-Jay

Reply to
Jay McGranahan

Interesting thread, and damned if I know what I'd do. The engine's OK? But how do you account for it not running right on the way home? No matter how long it lasts, you'll always wonder if it would have lasted longer. If it goes 200K, you'll wonder if it wouldn't have made 250K. And 5 years down the road you'll still be worrying about any damage that might have been done. There's no way the service manager *KNOWS* it's not hurt -- no way.

However, a new engine would be a different serial number would it not? Would that hurt the resale value of the car -- not having matching numbers? I don't know.

You've got a good, old-fashioned conundrum going here.

Before spending money on an attorney, I'd go to your state's Attorney General's office and find out exactly what your rights are. Chance are if you find one that'll take your case it'll cost way more than it's worth. Chance are unless actual damages can be shown, there would be no settlement, and you can't show actual damages.

I think, with all that said, I'd go for the extended warranty for free. True enough, if the engine caves at 101K, you still lose, but chances are if it was damaged, the damage will show up before then.

My 2¢ worth.

Reply to
Frank

If you get 200k you got your moneys worth. Not saying you would'nt have gotten more but no guarantee that you would have gotten 200k, most likely, but not guaranteed.

How long is the warrenty on the engine? See if you can get Toyota to extend the drive train warrenty to cover any damage that may be related for lets say

10yrs. Toyota comped me a tranny for my 95 T-100 4x4 with 100k on it. All I had to pay for was instalation. Maybe they would take it as a trade in on sothing new.

Offer to pay 1/2 what you would normaly pay for a trade in. This may not seem fair to have to pay out of your pocket. But if it gets the job done, then it is a small price to pay. You could fight all your life and get know where, and cost you a new truck in 5 yrs. Be flexable and you may come up with a option that works for you. Keep on keeping good records, and good luck!

Reply to
MBOSCHERT

Jay McGranahan writes about his bad dealer oil change experience:

Just seconding some of what has been said, but adding my own experience:

Your engine probably is fine, running that short of time on 2qts of oil. As long as the oil pump pickup was covered, it had enough oil to perform its job. But I have a simple suggestion, with a story first:

Many years ago, I had bought a used 85 Toyota with a 22RE from the dealer. At 80k, I took it into them for valve adjustment/seals.

Much money and time later, the car ran not so smoothly. The mechanic tried to convince me that it was just the normal "rough idle of a 22RE" and that "they always make that noise when the valve lash adjustments are done." The noise was an odd rattle/tick that always matched engine speed.

It ran, I was tired of my loaner car (though, in retrospect, that SR5 Corrola was a fun little car!), so we agreed that they would warranty the work up to 100k.

Performance continued to degrade over the course of 9mos, and I took it in monthly. "No problem" they would always say. I was young (18/19), in college and working, and while I had owned Fords and rebuilt a few Ford I6 and V8 engines, I wasn't quite ready to do any work on this vehicle.

Once the engine stopped having any performance at all that winter, I decided to do a compression test myself. #3 was down by 18psi, and a curious noise could be heard while rotating the crank with the plug out.

I took it in. THis is at 98k. Head was removed. Hello! A piece of metal, looked like the metal reinforcement ring from a head gasket, loose in the cylinder! #3 was randomly scratched up. Under the terms of our extended warranty, and my assurance that I would employ a lawyer only when and an if actually necessary, they ended up buying me a rebuilt motor, and paying another shop of my choice to install it.

So, my suggestion:

Insist on and get in writing an extended warranty up to 100k.

Never take it to them for an oil change again, even if they offer to do it for free. Document all your service work (they'll want all those receipts if/when you want to make a warranty claim).

Drive it until it has a real problem! Then take it in. In 100k miles, you'll know if you're having problems related to low oil: check your compression every once in a while.

lycka till!

Reply to
gregory trimper

Legacy Toyota (Tallahassee) is supposed to call me tomorrow regarding my request for a 100K warranty after considering what their "factory-trained technicians" did to my truck. (Will keep you posted.) I think if they're worth anything, they honor my request, which I think is very reasonable. And, you're right, I'll do all my own oil changes from now on and keep receipts and a log.

-Jay

Reply to
Jay McGranahan

Well, I just received a call from Legacy Toyota's Customer Service Representative and she said she had spoken to "upper management" and they felt that no damage was done to my truck.

I asked how they knew no damage was done and she said considering the mileage driven etc..., blah, blah, blah. I called the corporate office and they basically told me I was at the mercy of the local dealership.

So I got a "I'm sorry that's not what you wanted to hear and... goodbye."

Never will I recommend anyone get their expensive Toyota truck/vehicle worked on by Legacy Toyota of Tallahassee! Total incompetence, horrible customer service and a total lack of customer concern! BEWARE!!!!

Reply to
Jay McGranahan

Have you contacted the Better Business Bureau? They may have reports of other misadventures noted at this dealership. In the worst case, they will record your complaint for future reference.

Tom

Reply to
Tom Braider

Good Idea! I'll call them tomorrow and send them a copy of my complaint. Thanks, Jay

"factory-trained

adjustments

Reply to
Jay McGranahan

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