Toyota 4Runner clutch engages way too late

A competent mechanic needs to examine it to be sure, Maryanne.

There are adjustments which can be made, and they may, or may not help, in your case.

The slight scorching smell, plus your description of the engine revving without really maintaining a proportional speed, points toward clutch problems.

Clutches often fail because of wear of the abrasive lining material. Eventually they all wear thin, but if the driver has a habit of driving with a foot on the pedal, or otherwise abusing the clutch, they can wear out much faster.

A leaking rear crankshaft seal can allow oil to get onto the clutch lining in some cases, and it will slip like the dickens. In such a case, the seal has to be fixed and the clutch replaced.

The car is giving you a warning and it is time to let someone competent have a look. Not necessarily a dealership, mind you...someone competent, and honest.

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what he said, ditto.

~:~ Marsh Monster ~tranny tech~ ~:~

The clutch has no routine maintenance adjustments. There IS an adjustment at the pedal but that will only need to be performed if misadjusted through somebody's ignorance or the clutch master cylinder is replaced.

You are correct. It means there is no longer a solid direct connection between the engine and transmission with the foot off the clutch pedal.

That's the friction material on the clutch.

Indicator of worn-out clutch.

Not a transmission overhaul but the transmission will have to come out. It is several hundred dollars for the whole job. 4WD will be more than 2WD. For insignificant additional cost the rear main (oil) seal on the motor should be replaced proactively. You don't want to have to pull the transmission, flywheel and clutch a second time should it start leaking! Insist on ONLY quality new parts. Daiken, Aisan, Exedy, genuine Toyota are all good. NO rebuilt advised!

Set parking brake firmly, put in 5th gear and try to take off giving it lots of gas. Car should stall abruptly -- in fact with a somewhat violent "thud." If the motor continues to run at all with foot off the clutch and in fifth gear the clutch is slipping. Do not prolong this test or perform it repeatedly or you could burn out a still serviceable clutch.

Don

There are no routine maintenance adjustments on this clutch. The only adjustment is at the clutch pedal and it only needs to be if done if somebody misadjusted it out of ignorance or the clutch master cylinder is replaced.

You are probably correct. It means the engine output and the input to the transmission are not posititvely connected by the clutch -- the connection is slipping which should only happen when the clutch pedal is depressed.

That's the clutch. Nasty smell aint't it! Lingers too.

Typical of a worn clutch.

Needs clutch replaced at several hundred dollars. Transmission is presumably fine but will have to come out. If 4WD the job is more expensive. I strongly recommend that the engine rear main (oil) seal be replaced while accessible with everything apart for the clutch replacement. The additional cost is insignificant and will prevent having to perform the whole operation later should the seal leak eventually. Quality parts only! No "rebuilt/remanufactured!" Aisan, Daiken, Exedy are all good.

Set the parking brake as tight as you can and attempt to take off in fifth gear with lots of gas. The motor should stall abruptly -- even somewhat violently. If you can make it continue to run -- even briefly -- with your foot off the clutch pedal the clutch is slipping. Do NOT prolong this test or perform it repeatedly or you can burn out a still serviceable clutch.

Don

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See the reply from HLS in the Toyota ng.

~:~ Marsh Monster ~:~

How many miles are on the vehicle? Is the vehicle often driven in stop and go traffic or in hilly areas?

The possible causes of a slipping manual transmission clutch are worn clutch and bad clutch master cylinder, although a bad master cylinder usually causes difficult shifting, which you did not mention.

I believe that the bell housing between the transmission and engine has an inspection cover so that the clutch can be visually inspected. The symptoms you're describing usually indicate a worn clutch.

You didn't mention which engine the 4 Runner has, but a remote possibility on a 4 cylinder is missing crankshaft thrust washers, although that also sometimes lead to difficulty shifting. To check for this, with the engine off, grasp the crankshaft pulley and see if there is any fore-aft play. If there is, then the thrust washer(s) have fallen out. Repair is expensive.

Your daughter needs a new clutch, the clutch is Hydraulic there is no real adjustment. The easiest way to know if you need a new clutch is: From a Stop, Put it in 5th gear, if you can get it to move without stalling like if you were in 1st gear, your clutch is bad. Not a cheap job, Big Repair if you never taken down a transmission before.

Good Luck!!!

You've hit the nail squarely on the head -- the clutch is worn out. You or she needs to replace the clutch immediately or risk damage to the flywheel. Actually, the flywheel may already be damaged, but assuming it hasn't will save a bundle on the repairs you most certainly are facing.

A slight smell of something burnt

Your boss has described a classic symptom of a worn clutch. He actually described ANOTHER symptom, you described one also. I have no doubt that you need to have the clutch replaced.

The 1998 2WD Toyota 4Runner has about 80K miles on it. Is that normal for a clutch to start slipping at this point? We drive mostly in the flatlands and do not carry heavy loads (loud screaming messy kid loads, but, not heavy). We mostly go to school and the store and back kind of driving. Very little is highway and very little is hills. Most is in the flatlands.

My daughter doesn't race her 98 2WD 4Runner, nor does she 'burn rubber' but I have noticed for years she lets up on the clutch pedal rather harshly such that the car lurches between gears, more so in the lower gears than in the higher gears.

Do you think the way she lets up on the clutch caused it to wear too much?

I was hoping that all she needed to do was adjust the pedal so that the clutch engaged sooner rather than later. We never touched this clutch pedal adjustment before.

Do you think there's a chance that the only thing wrong is that the clutch pedal somehow went out of whack and doesn't engage soon enough?

About 80 thousand original miles.

Is the vehicle often driven in stop and go traffic or in hilly areas? Almost never in the hills but almost always in around-town driving. Almost never highway driving. Since 1998, this Toyota 4Runner was used mostly for dropping off the kids at school, soccer practice, band practice, etc. Now I gave it to my daughter to drive as her car. She wanted a red Z but this is what she gets! :)

The shifting seems to be easy between gears.

This is good news. I will ask my neighbor to take a look. He is very helpful but he doesn't know much about cars. We often help each other. I help him with domestic items since he lost his wife and he helps me since the divorce on those mechanical things men do so well.

What would he be looking for? Can the 'thickness' of a worn clutch be inspected through this bell housing?

This is excellent advice and is the kind of "transmission test" I was looking for.

I have the 4 cylinder 2WD inexpensive Toyota 4Runner. I think the engine is called "3RZFE 2.7L 4CYL" because that is what is hand written on a placard under the hood. This stick-on placard also says the transmission is "W59" if that helps someone.

I will print this advice and ask Bill, my neighbor, to check the crankshaft thrust washers which might be missing (where would they have gone?)

Thank you for the clutch-testing advice! That kind of testing advice is exactly what I was looking for. It's late tonight and my daughter isn't at home (she is out driving her 4Runner around way too late for my likes. In my day, we were home in bed by 11pm!).

Anyway, I'll print this out and when she gets back home, I'll test it with her in the morning (after a stern talk about being out late!).

Thank you for the advice ... if I need the clutch replaced in this 1998 2WD Toyota 4Runner "3RZFE 2.7L 4CYL W59" car, do you know how many hours that would be? My local mechanic "shop rate" is $120 an hour so that would give me an idea of how much it should cost.

What is the "shop time" for a clutch replacement?

Oh no.

If the clutch is still working (albeit only at the top end of the clutch pedal let-go point), is it still damaging the flywheel?

Or does that damage occur even if the clutch is still working slightly (but slipping on the steep hills over a few thousand feet high)?

The clutch works much like the brakes only in reverse. Where brakes use friction to stop your car the clutch uses friction to get it moving. From you description the clutch is definitely slipping (RPM increases on heavy loads). This means you need a new clutch. It is conceivable that the mechanism that connects the clutch pedal to the actual clutch is not working properly, but this is not very likely and at this point the damage to the clutch has already been done. From your description it won't be much longer till you won't be able to get the car to move at all.

How long will your car last before you will not be able to drive it at all? That depends on how much slipping of the clutch you do. Every time you slip the clutch it shortens the life span. That means every time you shift gears you are using up what little future exists for this clutch. If you are very gentle with acceleration you may get it to last for months. If you put the car in fifth gear apply the brakes rev up the motor and let out the clutch you could probably burn up what's left of this clutch in less than 2 minutes.

-jim

The first thing to visualize is metal parts moving against one another. This is bad, for the most part. The flywheel is nothing more than a metal plate, the clutch pressure plate is essentially another metal plate with springs attached to press it against the flywheel. The clutch pressure plate has a friction material on it (the actual part that wears out). What you are noticing is that the friction material is worn, which reduces the pressure of the plate against the flywheel.. IF the friction material is allowed to wear all of the way down, then you will have metal on metal in what is among the worst possible places. Since the clutch is already slipping, then the flywheel and pressure plate that should be spinning at the same rate are really spinning at different rates, and the flywheel can be worn already. There is no way to determine this short of pulling the transmission and clutch pressure plate out of the truck and inspecting the flywheel.

When astute car owners catch a worn clutch early enough, they can often times replace the pressure plate only, and continue on with the same flywheel, but there are mechanics out there that will tell you that you should replace the flywheel as a normal matter of course when you replace the clutch. The basic clutch components are the flywheel and pressure plate, pilot bearing (replace this) and throw out bearing (replace this too). the throw out bearing rides in a fork (do not replace this), the fork is connected either mechanically or hydraulically to the clutch pedal. If hydraulic, you may need a slave or master cylinder, or both, but you haven't described the symptoms of this so I wouldn't worry about it for now.

The slipping causes extreme heat and that burning smell. This can damage the face of the flywheel. It adds a bit more $$ to the job to have the flywheel resurfaced, but it is best to have a nice new flat surface for the nice new clutch to grab onto.

You can be pretty sure the clutch is toast from your descriptions. I would recommend you phone around for pricing and ask about the extra for a flywheel resurface so you don't get caught by surprise.

As far as cost goes, your truck isn't one of the more expensive ones to fix.

And FYI, driving with your foot resting on the clutch pedal wears them out fast as well as riding the clutch when starting off, especially uphill.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

If he's right and the clutch is indeed engaging way too 'late' then it's possible that it may not be 'engaging fully', in which case it's possible that a small adjustment could fix it. At least you seem to be on the right track and the clutch is slipping, the burning smell likely is the clutch material getting hot...you need to get it looked after very soon. Take it to your mechanic and ask him to adjust the linkage so that the clutch engages near the middle of the range.

Well, if you're going uphill and the Tachometer RPMs are climbing and the speedo is staying tha same or slowing down, the clutch is on the way out...or, even gone. The only toyota I ever had that did this, I'm lucky the clutch did disintegrate! It was in bad shape.

The only thing I would check first is that the clutch reservior, the smaller cylinder near the brake cylinder is full and doesn't have air in the line.

But, from what you're saying, I'd start shopping for a new clutch.

On my car, I got one from CarQuest, rebuilt (of course, I was working there...). It was inexpensive and very well done as far as the rebuilding; but I can't remember the brand name.

Your symptoms are those of a worn out clutch.

It needs to be replaced with a new clutch assembly, by a competent mechanic.

mrcheerful