Which viscosity Mobil 1 for 22RE?

how many miles??

10w30 should suffice.

10W-30. 5W-30 in very cold winter climates. 20W-50 if the engine is nearly worn out with oversized bearing clearances. 5W-40 if the engine is worked hard & hot or just has moderate wear.

Mobil 1 filter is very good, but no necessary relationship to using Mobil 1 oil. A Purolator Pure One filter is just as good for less money.

Ken

Ken

Mobil doesn't make a 5W-40 oil, I think you're thinking of their 15W-50. That's a larger chain polyol ester synthetic with a small load of plasticizer by using a larger ester. Only Castrol is using a light ester chain to allow for the low initial viscosity and adding a huge load of plasticizers to get the higher end. This can be a major problem over the long term for some engines when the upper galleries get plasticizer build up from heat effect....kinda negating the whole idea of synthetics in the first place. Their 5W-40 is heavily loaded but their 5W-50 is bizarre (refer to the API on this issue). Then again, this is from the same company that made incredible-and criminally fraudulent-claims about their gas and got whacked by the FTC. The case makes for interesting and enlightening reading and is accessible from the FTC, refer to FTC 972-3209 (Castrol). A concurrent case was also settled with both Shell and Castrol connected with this case, FTC

982-3107 (Shell and Castrol).

Got a question, have you ever sawn a Purolator filter in two? A lot of the filters appear to be identical which leads me to suppose that they are being made by a common manufacturer.

ExxonMobil makes two Mobil 1 5W-40 PAO oils, their "Delvac 1" and their "Truck & SUV oil".

PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Truck_SUV_5W-40.asp PDS/GLXXE2CVLMOMobilDelvac1_5W-40.asp I don't think ExxonMobil makes any POE automotive engine oils.

BP Castrol's automotive engine oils are Group III base stock. Castrol, Shell, Pennzoil, STP, etc. have had their hands lightly slapped by the FTC for selling oil treatment or gas snake oils. What else is new.

Ken

Say it ain't so 1 Of The Masses. I just purchased a case of genuine Toyota oil filters based on your earlier comments. Do these fit into the same category as the Purolators, Frams, etc? BTW, I'm also a mechanical engineering grad (UCSD) and live in San Diego.

Another vote for 10w-30. I've got a '94 with 124k miles.

get some WIX filters. better than oem, less $$$ than oem branded stuff...

I still like Toyota OEM filters a lot.

WIX filters are top quality construction and average filtration efficiency. Nothing wrong with them, and nothing special about the filtration. I use WIX occasionally. NAPA-Gold filters are nearly identical to WIX.

Ken

Here's an interesting article:

talks about different brands of oil filters and who manufactures them.The basic gist is that Purolater and Wix are good, but Fram sucks.Unfortunately for Steve, he doesn't go into genuine Toyota filters, but youmay be able to identify it as made by somebody else by looking at thearticle. IMHO on the 'yota filters is you're paying an extra few dollars tohave the seal pre-oiled.Slik

Great read! Thanks for sharing it with us.

Hey ya Ken

Actually, neither of those you cited are actually in the Mobil 1 line of lubricants but to check on this to see if something changed in this volatile market, I called up my contacts at Exxon, Mobil, Shell, Citgo, ARCO and Valvoline from back when I was working. I also did a literature search (mostly the Journal of Tribology), consulted my colleagues over at OSHA, reviewed RTECS, the CEPP program, my colleagues at DOT and finally, my old team at EPA. Here?s what it is as of July 2004: the Mobil 1 line is specifically based on POEs with a varying fraction of PAOs added, the amount varying with the region and with the target viscosity (see below). However, Mobil does offer other lubricants and those do have higher fractions of PAOs as well.

Exxon, separate from Mobil, had always offered a far larger array of lubricants, partly due to Exxon?s success in the Sixties and Seventies in winning offshore leases on big fields, and having the resources and drive to further the technology to go get the oil. Concurrent to that was the expansion of their refinery capacity, in part by capital outlay and by acquisition of smaller oil firms. Hence, Exxon captured a large share of the conventional oil marketplace, not only manufacturing their own line-up of lubricants, but also making oils and other specialized lubricants for other companies. Interestingly, Exxon refineries, as did everyone else, flared the ethylene and other ?waste? gases in which olefins and plastics can easily be made. Partly this was due to the low demand for plastics in the past, and partly that a refinery that assembles the gases must have the room and capital outlay to build additional tanks, columns, piping, etc.

Mobil, separate from Exxon, uses esters to make their basestocks, either themselves or contracted for around the country at other refineries or chemical plants, including Exxon refineries. In fact it was Mobil that took an idea that has been around for some time, the lubricating properties of esters and olefins and marketed it, thus capturing a specific developing and growing market and holding it ever since. A property of esters is that the larger the molecule (the atomic weight) the higher the viscosity. In addition esters excel at the touted advantages in extended pour point, low ash, extended heat range and much higher film pressures then PAOs, which themselves far exceed most conventional oils (excluding biologically derived oils). What makes esters better then olefins is that there are more and stronger bonds in the chain structure. The ester size and hence, the relative viscosity is dependent on the acid and alcohol used to make the specific ester which in turn is dependent on the viscosity and properties needed for that specific lubricant when applied in conjunction to the availability of other constituents. Generally speaking, the use of esters is the more expensive method of multi-viscosity production versus the easier use of batch synthesis of PAOs and then adding plasticizers to then tailor the end product, or mixing esters and olefins to reduce the plasticizer load for extended viscosity. Be clear on this, this is the way it truly is in the manufacturing world.

Mobil offers lower cost synthetic oil, which are all PAO based, as does others companies. For instance, Citgo with their ST-32, which are targeted for a specific market; reciprocating engines and smaller turbines (like the Saturn) however, these are not intended nor approved for use in aviation applications. In extended high heat applications, PAO based oils must be cooled otherwise oil degradation will occur. The flash point of most of the PAOs is under 250 C whereas esters are far higher. Again, this is due to the properties of the ester chain structure.

But back to cars and trucks, another approach is the use of PAOs to build the oil then add a large plasticizer load to extended the viscosity range. One company, Castrol, has taken this to the extreme with it?s 5W-50, a PAO-based synthetic (low cost) with zero esters added (which adds significant cost). Look in the back issues of the Journal of Tribology on plasticizers, detergents, oil chemistry, etc. There are many fine articles on synthetic oils in wide use as well as specialized lubricants.

Above I mentioned regional variations to a oil. In turns out that Mobil varies the ester and olefin mix depending on the region in which the suppliers are. I took a trip up to LA last week and spent a day at the ARCO refinery in Carson before heading to my old office. The Mobil 1 line are all polyol ester based but have varying amounts of PAOs added to lower cost. For instance, Mobil 1 oils made for the southwestern region have a higher amount of PAO added to the POE basestock because the primary crude oil distillation plants in Los Angeles and the East Bay produce quite a large amount of the gases as a by-product of distillation of asphaltic crudes from the North Slope and the Monterey formations of California coastal fields both on and offshore.

The primary product line of Mobil synthetics, i.e., the Mobil 1 line, can be found here:

Following is a copy-and-paste of the contents of that page more those with a high security settings on their browser, with the application text removed to save space:

The Synthetic Alternative Mobil 1synthetic motor oil outperforms conventional motor oil. Historically, conventional oils lack the performance of synthetic oils in the areas of low-temperature oxidation stability. Mobil 1 also provides superior high-temperature stability and protection against deposits. These attributes translate directly into less engine wear and longer engine life. Count on Mobil 1 to protect your customers' engines against temperature extremes and to help keep engines clean better than any conventional motor oil. For more information on Mobil 1, please visit Mobil 1.com.

Mobil 1 0W-20 Mobil 1 0W-30 Mobil 1 0W-40 Mobil 1 10W-30 Mobil 1 15W-50 Mobil 1 5W-30 Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 Mobil 1 Truck and SUV [which is 5W-40, added from the linked website]

Not in the Mobil 1 line of auto engine oils line but made by Mobil or it's suppliers is the Delvac 1 (5W-40) synthetic oil made for use in diesel engines, reciprocating engine powerplants and for smaller gas-turbine power plants where oil-coolers are used (larger gas-turbine application use the

800 series of ester based oils). This oil is specifically designed with larger ester chains as the basestock with olefins added. This reduces the plasticizer load substantially.

In addition, Mobil sells another line of oils that are a blend of conventional oils and PAOs (with none to some esters, varying amounts of plasticizers, depending on the extended viscosity range, the highest being

20W-50):

Mobil Drive Clean Plus NV and Mobil Drive Clean Plus HM

The Drive Clean line (versus Drive Clean Plus), contain no synthetic components.

Finally, a little note about Shell and Castrol, a former colleague and friend of ours, Sheila Anthony is a commissioner with the FTC heard the evidence against both Shell and Castrol, and after the consent decree, administered the fines. Read the cases available for download from the FTC to really get an idea what went on. So in one sense, both Shell and Castrol got whacked. Of course those corporations then passed on the cost to the consumer, so in the end, you?re absolutely right: nothing really happened! Oh, the stories I could tell on companies I went after when I was working?

?Regulations exist because there are those who cannot regulate themselves.?

"Ken Shelton" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com...

PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Truck_SUV_5W-40.asp

Hey ya

Sorry for the long delay in responding, we did a little sail trip out to Catalina, then I went and knocked on doors and ran around doing some research on engine oils. I'm a ME myself, Rochester 1976, I got my PHD at UCSD in chemistry. Since you're in SD, Doug Draney, parts at Kearney Mesa Toyota is a long-time friend and gives me his cost of parts.

API said good things about Toyota filters in 1997 as OEM filters. I've never cut a Purolator filter in two and looked at one and did so with a Fram back when there wasn't that crazy quality line that there is now. I know little about filters other that they come in little boxes and screw on the usual way. As they stack up to each other however, with the large amount of manufacturing occurring in the China FTZs, I'm wondering where filters are made. Anybody have any ideas, tests, etc? Being retired, I think I'll look into this just for the hell of it.

Check out my response to Ken...that was many days of running around up and down the coast plus a really terrific tour of the ARCO refinery in Carson that you would have really loved. I made a huge mistake when I responded to him about the 5W-40 as you can see in my response. Are you a member of ASME? If so, check out the Journel of Tribology. Many great articles on synthetic oil chemistry.

Ken you're right, I truly screwed the ol' pooch. Check out my other reply to you for what I found out this week after calls and running around. You might like it.

Our friend Sheila had a good laugh over being reminded about the Shell and Castrol cases. In the end we the people paid the fines.

PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Truck_SUV_5W-40.asp

10W30