1971 Engine Wont Start

There are no fuses in the Ignition circuit. Plus, since you did get shocked, the circuit must be working.

Look on my web site for: "Why won't my engine start?" Takes you step-by-step through the procedure. Follow each step.

Post back.

Speedy Jim

if you are parked in reverse, and have changed the coil or wiring, make sure you don't have the reverse light wire hooked on the negative side of the coil...

Check the idle cutoff solenoid. With the key turned to the run position pull the wire..you should hear a click. If not trace back from there. The choke and cutoff solenoid need to be hooked to the positive side of the coil, along with the reverse lights. The only connection on the negative side should be the points wire, and perhaps one other connection if you have a tachometer.

Chris

Thanks everybody, still no luck. I went threw your page Speedy Jim, and I am getting worse off as I go for some reason. Here's what I have now: Good compression. Good voltage on the left terminal when the key is engaged, also the right terminal of the coil. If I pull off the wire from the coil leading to the dist cap.. I get no spark now. Before I had spark while the engine was trying to start, it electricuted me.. now nothing. No spark from that, no spark from the plug wires.. I have tried different coils.. different points.. and different condesors.. heck I even tried a set of compufire point elimination device. I have tried different distributors.. dist caps.. and rotors.. I am getting voltage to the coil, just not on the one spark plug wire from the coild to cap now. Yes, I have tried 3 coils..

2 brand new ones (Bosch blue, and an off brand). I even switched back to the OG voltage regulator.. here's what really happened.

I noticed the PO had the voltage regulator on the shroud. It fell off. I parked the vehicle fine. Backed it into the driveway. Next day, would not start.. so being the regulator fell off, might have shorted something.. I took the regulator from my 69.. still no luck. At that time I had spark off the coil to the dist cap.. now nothing.. not even with the OG regulator. I dont understand how the wires to the coil are getting voltage, the coils are new.. but they wont produce voltage to the dist cap now. Ever seen this before?

Thanks!!!

Ok, things I forgot to mention. I checked all the spark plugs, etc. Cleaned them off, they looked fine. No oil or gas on them. No voltage is even getting to them.. fuel is fine, I can even smell it. I even poured some in the carb before trying to run incase. It is not even trying to run. It turns over great, just no attempt to fire. When I first posted, it tried a couple of seconds to fire.. since then nothing.. I tried to start it in first gear, and it engaged and moved.. so I must be missing a safety switch/relay for the tranny? That's a different story, unrelated to this?? I can work on that later.

Do I need to post pictures of the wiring?? It had some loose wires from years ago when I bought it. No horn. They were bare, so I taped them up. It ran fine, and never had a problem like this, untill this week. Like I say it is a 1960, but rewired.. It has semaphores, and a

1600cc DP.. Only thing that I ever had to change was the idle cut off.

Did you try a different spark wire from the coil to the distributor?

Yes, had a brand new set of yellow Empi, I was saving on the shelf. Thanks.

Go back to my page "Why won't my engine start?" and skip down to the section labeled "No Spark"

Go thru the tests listed step-by-step.

Speedy Jim

/waits to hear that the battery was flat the whole time...

Did you try to start it with the accelerator pedal pressed all the way down? It may be flooded, or the idle cut-off solenoid not working, or the fuel drained back to the tank. Try to crank it for 10 seconds continuously with the accelerator pedal pressed all the way in. Take a brake for a minute and try again. If it won't start after 3-4 tries, check the following:

Electrical Related tests:

- 1) Check points gap and the ignition timing (it needs readjustment when you replace points or distributors).

- 2) Check that the spark plug wires are connected in the correct order on the distributor cap. To do this remove a Spark plug (eg #2) and rotate the engine by hand until you can feel with your finger in the spark plug hole pressure building up. This is the compression stroke. Remove distributor cap, and verify that the wire for the Cylinder under test is connected to the cap at the location the rotor points.

- 3) Check that the little carbon electrode in the center of the inside of the distributor cap is in it's place.

- 4) Check Spark Strength. Remove Center HT Lead from the distributor cap, pull back the protective rubber to uncover the metal terminal, and position it near a grounded metal part of the engine (away from fuel / carb / pump). Usually it is possible to jam it between the bottom of the distributor body and the timing adjustment clamp at the bottom of the distributor. Do not short-circuit the High Voltage terminal, leave a small gap about 3mm between the terminal and the grounded metal. Now turn on the ignition switch, and rotate the engine by hand. You should see a spark twice per turn of the crank.

- 5) Check that the back-up light is wired correctly. It might be wired on the points' side of the coil, greatly reducing the strength of the spark.

Fuel Related tests:

- 1) Verify you have fuel in the tank. The fuel gauge might be inaccurate.

- 2) Remove the cover of the carb to see if there is fuel in the carb's bowl. It should be full after all that cranking.

- 3) Verify that the electromagnetic cut-off solenoid (on the carb) clicks every time you turn the ignition switch on or off. You should be able to hear it from the drivers seat with the door and hood open. If it won't click, the engine won't idle, so it won't start if you don't press the accelerator pedal.

Regards, Bill Spiliotopoulos, '67 Bug.

Ok, things I forgot to mention. I checked all the spark plugs, etc. Cleaned them off, they looked fine. No oil or gas on them. No voltage is even getting to them.. fuel is fine, I can even smell it. I even poured some in the carb before trying to run incase. It is not even trying to run. It turns over great, just no attempt to fire. When I first posted, it tried a couple of seconds to fire.. since then nothing.. I tried to start it in first gear, and it engaged and moved.. so I must be missing a safety switch/relay for the tranny? That's a different story, unrelated to this?? I can work on that later.

Do I need to post pictures of the wiring?? It had some loose wires from years ago when I bought it. No horn. They were bare, so I taped them up. It ran fine, and never had a problem like this, untill this week. Like I say it is a 1960, but rewired.. It has semaphores, and a

1600cc DP.. Only thing that I ever had to change was the idle cut off.

Ok followed all of the steps.

I have 12 volts on post 15. I have 12 volts on post 1. (with the HT lead on, or off, with the points, on or off, I still have 12v when the key is turned)

Points are opening and closing. Used light sand paper to clean them.

I changed the points, and the light stays on no matter what when the key is engaged.

My tiny braided pigtail lead which grounds the advance plate, is not broken. This is an 009. I tried with a complete stock dist too. same results. The stock type spare dist has new points and condensor.

I tried also a new coil. Also new HT lead wire.

I have 2 wires on the post 15. Ones to the carb, and one from the harness. I have 1 wire on post 1, the points.

If I start the vehicle, no spark appears at the HD lead. If I turn the key to on, and check the HD lead spaced from the ground, while turning the engine by hand, no spark from the HD lead.

I tried starting with a battery charger booster, no effect. Put the battery in my 74, started it right up. The battery is good.

Can something be shorting my new parts? Like my new points, new condensors, new coils?

Nothing seems to be working out for me with this. I don't know what is wrong.

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Well, you are getting close. Post #1 on the Coil *must* switch from 12V to zero as the points close. Since it doesn't, we need to focus on how that could happen.

Let's experiment. Take a short wire and ground one end to the engine case. With your meter connected to Post #1, touch the wire to #1. The voltage should go to Zero.

Next, touch the wire to the spade push-on connector inside the distributor (where the points attaches). Again, the voltage should go to Zero.

If it does *not* go to Zero in the last test, there is an open connection somewhere in the Grn lead from distrib to Coil or in the spade connector in the distrib body.

Post back results.

Jim

Andrew wrote:

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Additionally, I'll quote something Jan said, which may be relevant:

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"First tighten the distributor clamp nut, behind the distributor, near the intake manifold. It should be a 13mm nut. (wrench size that is). That's the main Ground for the distributor. " (Jan)

------------------ If that Ground is loose, the voltage at #1 won't go to Zero.

I don't know what to do now, I am out of parts. It is back to the way it was the first day now. I replaced everything. I got it to turn the

12v light on and off when attatched to the #1 post while turning the engine by hand. I got the HT lead when turning the engine over to spark. I can't get the plug wires to spark. I changed rotors, caps.. I am out of parts.. Guess I have to order everything new again, something happened to them.

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Don't despair :-) Sometimes it's hard to see the spark at the plugs. As long as you have a fat blue spark from the HT lead, it should work.

Put fresh or clean/dry plugs in and try to start it. Maybe even a squirt of starting fluid in the carb.

If you can push start it in gear, there is a better chance of it starting.

Set the static time to TDC and double check that #1 is on firing stroke (valves closed)

Jim

Andrew wrote:

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You are making progress if you can get a spark from the main HT lead from the coil. If the rotor isn't lined up with a terminal under the cap for a plug wire you won't see a spark at the plugs. Follow the circuit with me...from the center of the cap, through the cap to the rotor, through the tip of the rotor through the terminal under the cap, thorough the plug wire and down to the plug. That is the path the charge must follow. Any breaks and you won't get a spark at the plug.

Set the engine to TDC on #1, and see where the rotor is pointing. On every bosch distributor I've encountered there is a mark on the casting to indicate where the rotor should be at TDC on #1, but you have to remove the rotor and the dust cover to see it(go figure...). Basically, position the engine on TDC #1, pull the cap, rotor and dust cover and put the rotor back on. Does it point to the line scribed on the casting?

If the rotor is correctly installed, and the distributor is correctly installed, and the engine is at TDC on #1, the rotor should point to the #1 position on the distributor casting. If the rotor turns when you crank the engine but it isn't pointed at the correct mark on the distributor it is possible that the distributor drive gear has moved or the brass driver gear on the crankshaft is worn out.

Good luck with it, let us know what you find out.

Chris

Well, it runs again!! I don't know specifically what it was. I had a set of compufire pointless ignition. Installed that, bought a new cap, new rotor, and changed all of the plugs. Started right up, but the timing is off from the compufire setup.

Thanks every> Don't despair :-)

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