73' EMPI bug unrestored excellent cond., what's it worth?

Just picked up a 73' EMPI bug as a first car for my kid. Now that I've got it, I think it may be too good for a teenage daily. It's unrestored and in excellent condition. Garage kept since 1993, 77k original miles, clean engine, orginal paint, seats, headliner, AM radio. A few surface rust spots only. What's this thing worth? I'd like to know before we unintentionally screw it up by painting etc..

Reply to
Sidelinez
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Excuse my ignorance, but what's an EMPI bug?

Reply to
jjs

Yea.....Empi was a manufacturer of aftermarket VW parts....unless they put together a custom beetle of their own..

Reply to
Exille

EMPI was cool when I was a kid. Did some surfing. Want to see something cool and terrifying at the same time?

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The lady! She's an alien!

Reply to
jjs

...................She's got some nice looking head lights.............lol

Reply to
Tim Rogers

They're down to her knees by now!

Max

Reply to
Max Welton

Okay, here's my long-winded post on the subject: EMPI, or Engineered Motor Products, Inc. was founded by Joe Vittone back in

1956, with replaceable valve guides for the 36 hp head. Joe also owned the Economotors VW dealership in Riverside, CA, and made EMPI-equipped "GTV" Sedans, that could be ordered with a variety of options. The C-stripes that go on the outside of the body, the EMPI gauges, walnut dash inserts and window sash trim pieces, power brakes, 5 spoke, 8-spoke, or Sprint Star wheels, and engine combos ranging from merely dressed-up 1500's and 1600's to all out fire-breathing, gas gulping ground pounders were available. I had dinner with Joe a few months ago ( he's 86, and his body is beginning to act like it, but his mind is still very definitely "hitting on all 4," still)and he recalls that, back in the mid-to-late 60's, during the EMPI heyday, that he had a fully-optioned GTV sitting in the Economotors showroom. Some lab-coated guys came in, handed him business cards from VWAG, and told him that they would be back the next morning, and that if that accessorized, hot-rodded GTV was still in the showroom, they had instructions to pull his dealership franchise on the spot. Joe maintains to this day, that all he wanted to do was help VW, by making the car more appealing to the youth market, thereby increasing sales, but he has had to fight VWAG since he first saved a cylinder head that VWAG said should be thrown in the trash. EMPI never had any help or factory sponsorship, in fact, quite the opposite. They fought him on everything he did, to the point of threatened lawsuits and dealership cancellations. Back to the original thread, it depends on how much EMPI stuff is on the car, how good of shape it's all in,and can it be documented as one of the cars that Economotors assembled, or is it one that somebody purchased and then began adding EMPI stuff to. There is quite an avid bunch of EMPI collectors out there, who will pay insane prices for stuff that is original, pre-1972 (When Joe, tiring of fighting with VWAG, sold EMPI to the Lee Eliminators division of Filter Dynamics, Inc.) EMPI parts. For instance, a well-preserved wood-rimmed, "GTV" steering wheel can fetch anywhere from 4 to 5 hundred dollars now. An original EMPI Eliminator shifter (NOT the Flat-4 copy !) in good shape, with a pliable rubber boot, can bring 200 or more dollars, and usually more, and a set of 5 original, restored, EMPI Rader wheels sold on ebay a few months ago for $4000.00. The original, magnesium, BRM's ( again, NOT the Flat-4 copies) have sold for that much and more, to collectors. So, it all depends on what is in the car, what kind of shape it's in, and if you can document where the car came from. If you request a "Birth Certificate" from VW, and they say the Port of Entry was Long Beach, then there's a good chance the car was assembled at the Economotors dealership, and worth more that the "customer-assembled" variety, but proving this is going to be difficult, unless you have some original supporting documents. Either way, a fully accesorized GTV is a collector's car, and maybe not the best choice for a "first driver" for someone who may not appreciate what the car is. Joe was full of stories, like why the Sprint Star was way harder to make than the BRM, and why it very nearly didn't get made, why there are so many EMPI (Okrasa) cranks out there, and even how the famous Blue Oval with the EMPI name in it came into being, which is another long-winded stort for another time. I'll tell you this, though- it was probably the very first known copyright infringement known to involve VW's, and he DID NOT copy the Ford logo, as so many have speculated...
Reply to
Kaferdave

Very generous of you to share that, Dave. Big Thanks!

Reply to
jjs

No sweat, John. Heck, I'll even tell you all the "EMPI logo" story, straight from Joe Vittone's mouth-

Back when, when EMPI was just a foundling corporation, Joe had a guy named Fumio Fukaya doing cylinder heads for him (By the way, Fumio is still in Riverside, CA, about one block from the old EMPI Roberta St address, and still doing killer headwork). Joe says that Fumio got a job in Italy, working for Fiat or Ferrari or Vespa or somebody (I don't remember the car maker; I'll have to check with Joe on that). Well, Joe didn't like that; he wanted Fumio working for him in Riverside, as Fumio was "da MAN" for heads back in those days, even today, a set of "FF" head are worth major bucks to the Old-School guys). ANYway, Joe, was not the kind of guy to conduct business over the telephone, and of course, Al Gore hadn't invented e-mail yet ;-) so, Joe, being the "hands-on" kinda guy he was (and still is), he hopped on a plane for Rome, to get nose-to-nose with Fumio, to find out what it would take to get him to move back to the US, and porting heads for EMPI. As he was boarding the plane, he happened to notice the logo on the tail of the jet...anyone remember the old Pan-American, or "PanAm" logo? Yep, that's where the EMPI logo came from. Joe took that blue, round, "PanAm" eblem, flattened it into an Oval, stuck "EMPI" in there instead of "PanAm" and there you have it. Joe felt that it conveyed world-wide commerce, which is what he had hoped to do with his EMPI Company. When I asked Joe about possible (Possible my a$$, it was a direct rip-off) copyright infringement, he simply replied that, they never asked, he never told, and since the original EMPI is out of business, and PanAm bit the dust years ago, no harm, no foul.... let's see you get away with THAT one today...

Next up, why the EMPI Sprint Stars almost never went into production, and why they were harder (and actually more expensive) to make, than the magnesium BRMs....

Reply to
Kaferdave

A regular fount of knowledge, I can't wait for the next instalment... really!! :o)

Thanks Dave,

G
Reply to
B.C. Bugger

"B.C. Bugger" wrote

Agreed. Great stuff.

After reading this thread I did some Googling on this subject. If anyone's interested, here's a few links I found:

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Pictures of GTV Supers (ack! ;-) here:
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-- Scott

Reply to
Scott H

Very interesting stuff Dave. Did EMPI also do a GTV version for Notchbacks? A while ago there was some dude selling a Notch with a "GTV" metal emblem ont he side. A very clean Notch, BTW, adn he was asking $5k for it, so I guess it was something special.

--Dan E

Reply to
Braukuche

Cool stuff Dave. Will be waiting for the next installment.:o)

Bill Berckman Cincinnati VW/Porsche Family Reunion Show 2003 Pictures

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Reply to
Bill Berckman

Dan, EMPI was a U.S.-based company, although they did sell parts world-wide. And the Notchback was never "officially" imported to the States; the ones you see here were usually brought in by service personnel, or through the "Tourist Delivery" program, or from Canada, where they were part of the VW lineup of cars. So, in answer to your question, no, I don't believe a "GTV Notchback" was ever made, and any of the literature and conversations I have had with Joe support that. The GTV badges were available as a separate part in the EMPI catalog, and reproductions are easily obtainable now (although they are easy to spot, if you know what you are looking for) so my guess is the person with the Notch bought some original badges or repop ones, and stuck them on his car. EMPI, later on, did make accessories for the Type 2 and 3, like the steps for the Bus, and I actually have a dual license plate/backup lite for the early Type 3. Talking to Joe is like talking to a living, breathing, history book of VW high performance, and it's amazing how much he remembers. When I was with him in Florida (I persuaded him to come out of retirement, and come to the Florida Bug Jam in Dade City to sign autographs) and he was amazed that the "VW thing" was still going on. I asked his wife if she had ever even ridden in an aircooled VW, and she said that she had only ridden in a New Beetle. Well, of course, that just wouldn't do, so I found a nice, hot, 2276 in a '62, and asked the owner if he would like to have a special guest in the passenger seat. Once he found out he was going to give Mrs. Joe Vittone a ride, he said "heck YEAH" So we strapped her in, I told him to really lay into it, and he slipped quietly out of the parking lot, and everybody got quiet, listening. Sure enough, we could hear him on a deserted road, he would it up, side - stepped the clutch, and hit the limiter in the first 3 gears. When they came back, Mrs. Vittone was shaking.I think that means she liked it ;-)

Reply to
Kaferdave

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Kaferdave) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m05.aol.com:

Dave, thanks for the history. Please say hey to Joe from us at RAMVA next time you see him!

Reply to
cloud8

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