brake problems on 74 super beetle

You may be right. After 30 yrs, the rubber hoses swell up inside and block fluid.

The shoes may be worn to the limit as well. And...are the wheel cyls 30 yrs old as well??

The M/C is a b***h to replace without pulling the gas tank but it can be done with the left frt wheel off.

Carefully inspect *all* the steel lines as well, especially the rear line where it runs underneath the pedal cluster. These often rust out in that spot.

See Rob and Dave's pages for the Brake repair section:

What he said!

But really. Try hoses if you know you have good wheel cylinders and brake shoes. Ther aren't that hard to change and usually solve the problem. If I remember right, you can get a whole set from Aircooled.net for about $25 plus shipping. Go to the master cylinder last because it's such a pain to do.

Peace, < TC

The brake info on that site, as it relates to the pushrod, is not good. This is not to criticise the sites authors as they are taking advice on the matter. However, it comes across that the pushrod can be used as a means to adjust the free-play. When the foot pedals are first set-up, in any Bug, the pushrod would be the last part to be fitted and set so that there is the correct free-play. Afterwards, the free-play should only be re-set by adjusting the entire pedal assembly, LHD or RHD. I imagine that many cars have had the pushrod 'messed with' over the years, which means that these 'many' cars should have the brake pedals re-aligned to ensure that the brake pedal has the full 'emergency' deflection, it needs.

It's probably NOT the MC. It is probably the rubber hose to the LF wheel.

Take the bleed valve all the way out. Does fluid come out the hole? If so, the hole in the bleed valve is just clogged with dirt and you can clean it out.

If no fluid comes out that hole, just take apart hose joints working your way back from the LF wheel toward the MC. When you get fluid, you'll know that you've just passed the blockage.

On a car this old, you should flush clean, fresh brake fluid thru everything until it comes out clean. If you have the skills, take the wheel cylinders apart and hone them, which can be done ON the car.

You can hone the MC, too, but as others have said, it's much more work to get to.

----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

-----------------------------------------------

This is very good advice, and it's good to see that there are others out there who understand this.

The MC pushrod should almost never be adjusted. The only exception would be in the case where it becomes clear that someone has already messed with the original factory setting.

There is a gauge which you can make, which allows you to reproduce the original setting, but I don't know ANYONE who has one of them. I have the print for it, but I haven't bothered to make it, yet.

----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

-----------------------------------------------

How does this gauge work? Is it something that can be easily explained?

This is a little hard to describe, but I'll try.

It's a sector of a circle, cut out of heavy sheet metal. At the "center" of the circle, a small circular "bite" has been taken out which is about 1" diameter, or whatever fits nicely around the brake pedal hub. The sector fits down there and extends upward between the backside of the pedal and the firewall.

You adjust the pushrod to just contact the MC when this template is captured between the backside of the pedal and the firewall, thus ensuring that the design amount of space is available for the pedal stroke.

This compensates for tolerance buildup between the pan and body parts, and the assembly tolerances when bolting them together.

----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

-----------------------------------------------

Thank you, I understood perfectly. So much so, that I went through all my stuff and eventually found the same gauge spec sheet, as you describe. It is interesting that there is an up-rated version for mid-69 and later Bugs, which may be due to body work changes. The manual mentions that an extra depression in the bodywork was made, for the 71 models to allow the slightly taller pedals to have the permissible travel.

According to the VW pedal specifications, the brake pedal should have a minimum travel of 190mm. Bentley states 200mm and the gauge 'appears' to provide even more (205 and 220mm). The simplest way to check (IMO) is to remove the pushrod and simply measure the pedal travel.

VW's wording (although not wrong) of the pushrod length having been "factory adjusted" or "the factory has set the length" has caused confusion. It has been assumed that there is a universal specific length for the pushrod, of which the dimension remains a well kept secret (VW's '7X'). What they should have made clear, was that each and every pushrod has been adjusted to suit each and every individual vehicle. This is why the rod was made adjustable, as otherwise, it would have been a cheaper 'fixed' length component.

Peter or Jim

Am very interested in the "gauge" can either of you point me to where it is in literature or please send me scan/image. thanks Grahame from Aus

Mine is on microfiche and I have no way to 'lift' the image. If Jim can't send you anything I can reproduce it for you, but I will need a few days. However, in a later VW workshop manual, it says to just simply measure the travel. Makes the gauge may seem like over-kill.

I wonder what happened in mid-69 that made a change necessary. The tandem MC had been around for 2.5 years by that time. Could the '71 comment be aimed at Super beetles? I thought all of these used the same pedal cluster.

What I have is a scan sent to me by Dave Hall in the UK. It's interesting that the numbers on this sheet are 210mm (unlabled, but presumably for early beetles) and 225mm (for mid '69 beetles and later, as well as for Type 3s.) There's no tool # on the sheet, just "local manufacture" and I don't see any date, but I believe this was out of a printed book, rather than microfilm, so I'm guessing that your image is later.

Is the 220mm on your image also for Type 3s?

I agree completely. This has cause a LOT of confusion to a LOT of people.

----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

-----------------------------------------------

I have a scan, and I'll email you a copy. Mine appears to be earlier and slightly different, but you can get the idea from this and change the numbers if you like.

OTOH, Peter's suggestion to just measure is quite reasonable. I think he's mistaken about removing the pushrod, however. I believe that you would just push the pedal forward until the free play goes away and then measure from the back of the pedal to the firewall.

Then adjust the pushrod until that measurement agrees with the spec.

----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

-----------------------------------------------

I don't know why the change in 69 but I assumed that it had something to do with the depression in the bodywork, referred to in the change for 71. I figure that they increased the pedal travel in 69 by making a recess in the front cross panel, for the pedal to seat further down into, rather than moving th pedals rearward. The change for 71 had to do with re-aligning the brake pedal closer to the accelerator.

The page on my microfiche is dated 9/70. It also shows 210 & 225mm, but I deducted the 5mm 'cut-off' shown on the diagram as that would represent a more true dimension.

Yes (shown as 225mm)

In the 1975 VW workshop manual, they make no mention of the gauge and say to first set the pedal free-play at 190mm, then set the pushrod. I think if they wanted you to take into account the pushrod free-play as extra to the pedal free-play, they would have indicated so. Removing the pushrod is my suggestion, as it is not always obvious where the pedal hits the front cross panel (carpets etc). As the measurement is 'free-play' as apposed to a 'distance', I figure that if you depress it till it stops, place the tape and measure back. At least, that is how I have done it before.

Receive it - thanks Jim I have some old "Volkswagenwerk AG Wolfsburg" books - "Workshop Equipment for Local Manufacture" but have not seen that tool mentioned.

I agree

And thanks to Peter and Jim, for discussing this.

After 30 years wear and tear, accident damage, replacement, body and pan swaps. It did not hold true when told "do not adjust the push rod length"

Grahame from Australia

I couldn't imagine what you meant by the "cut-off" so I went back and looked at the scan again. I had never noticed that before. Now I agree that your numbers make more sense than the numbers I was reading off the print.

It makes sense to blunt the important corners on this gauge, but I wonder why they only blunted one? Is there any indication of which side we are supposed to face to the firewall?

Now that you've called this to our attention, I think I would blunt both corners this way, while preserving the dimensions you quoted.

----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

-----------------------------------------------

From the photo (in the manual) of the gauge in use, the blunt end is for the back of the pedal pad. The 'pointed' other end may not actually contact the surface of the cross panel, as this may occur further down that edge.

Peter & Jim

I have already discussed with Jim that - After viewing the scan - It bears little resemblance to the original "Workshop Equipment for Local Manufacture" sheets. It has a very amateurish look and feel. I wonder if it's a real "local thing" i.e. that it's just that dealer/service people who thought it may be a could idea to produce a gauge. May be Dave can help? But back to the gauge, I interpret it as dimension "b" as a scribe mark on the plate to line up with the back of the pedal. At that point the pushrod is adjusted with no play. Then move pedal back to the point on the gauge and adjust the stop plate for pedal position. This will give the minimum 5mm freeplay (approx 1mm on the rod).

Grahame from Aus

It comes from the official VW Germany produced 'Workshop Manual' and does not appear amateurish on my version. It was not a tool that you could order from VW, whereas I think the majority (if not all) in the 'Local Manufacture' manual were also available from the plant (I would have to go through them all to be sure).

My version is not scanned and so may be more clear. The diagram does not state anywhere that the 'cut-off' is a "scribe mark". It also shows the portion of the template, not including the area outside the 'cut-off', in a darker (or thicker) line. This clearly indicates that the extra 5mm outside of the 'cut-off' should not be retained. Along with this diagram (on the following pages) it states that the "pedal free travel" is to be obtained first (with the gauge) and then the pushrod should be adjusted to obtain the play with the master cylinder. Nowhere, in the instructions, does it explain using the template to measure the pushrod free-play. There is also an introduction, on these pages, which suggests that the pushrod free-play is included in the 'pedal free travel'.