Distributor Experiment: Success

A bit more information on the distributor I was able to dig up:

Timing Set At:: 7.5deg BTDC @ 850-950 rpm (Man Trans), w/strobe, vacuum hose connected Advance Range: Vacuum: 8.5-11deg Adv @ 7.9 In. Hg; Centrifugal:

I timed the engine to the recommended 7.5deg BTDC. It runs well and starts much easier than with the 009. However I recall hearing that a

Thanks, Harry

Don't do it. The 34pict-3 will run just fine without modification. The main issues with the 34pict-3 are worn throttle shaft bushings(you can have them replaced and put the carburetor back in service...), wrong distributor, or dirt in the idle circuit. The proper jetting can be obtained from the factory service manual and you can compare that to what you have in your carburetor right now.

In terms of overall driveability, if you want your 1600 to run like a real car, and not "an old volkswagen" you need to ensure that the carburetor is clean, there are no air leaks at the throttle shaft or anywhere in the intake manifold, you need to have the correct distributor, your pre-heat tubes must be unclogged and working normally, the tinware needs to be complete, ignition timing, ignition advance and valve clearance must be correct, point gap must be correct, plugs and wires must be in good condition, overall the engine needs to be in good mechanical condition(read: compression test and vacuum gauge test) and you need to make sure there is a hot-air supply to the air cleaner(read: use the stock aircleaner).

Basically, put your car back like VW shipped it when it was a new car, and it will run just fine. If you try to take a short-cut expect to be driving "an old volkswagen". Been there, done that.

Good luck with it.

Chris

Most of the time I've been able to take the hesitation out of it by advancing the adjustment on the accelerator pump to max on the carb itself. Works for me for the past decade or so. Dennis

This is an option for those who are running the 009, but dumping a bunch of fuel into the carburetor to get the engine to speed up is only helping the oil refineries. The initial tip-in when you open the throttle causes a brief lean condition, and the accelerator pump is there to fix that temporary lean spot. Yes, the accelerator pump does dump fuel when you move the throttle even if you are already at cruising speed, but consider that one of the drawbacks of the carburetor. I mean the damn thing was 'invented' somewhere around

The vacuum advance distributor will respond instantly to any change in the throttle position(check it for yourself with a timing light if you don't believe me). As soon as the timing starts to advance you will see the engine speed begin to smoothly pick up. At full throttle the vacuum advance will basically shut down, leaving the advance controlled by the centrifugal portion of the distributor. This is smart engineering; maximum advance at part-throttle cruise is more than at WOT with this design.

Take a look at the older chevys and fords, and toyotas, and mitsubishis, and on and on. They all have dual-advance distributors, and for good reason...it works. The 009 is in my opinion a piece of crap. I've yet to find a stock VW with a 009 that runs as good as mine with the original DVDA distributor.

To the original poster regarding setting 30 degrees of advance : Use a handheld vacuum pump to apply suction to the advance canister line and see what the maximum advance is at idle. Then disconnect the vacuum line and rev the engine to see how much advance you get from the centrifugal section. Add up the amount of advance from both tests and that will give you a reasonably accurate amount of 'total' advance you would expect to see while driving at partial throttle. If you set the timing per the factory spec -and- you have an accurate mark on the pulley that you are using to set the timing then I wouldn't worry about it. So long as the weights in the distributor move free and the vacuum canister isn't leaking you should be just fine.

Chris

Like I said, "It works for me". If you can't make it work for you, that is something you have to work out. I've got 009's on all my vwac and they work great. There would not be an adjustment with incriments on the carb if nobody ever had to adjust it. Like I said,"it works for me. This is just my opinion of course..........Dennis

connected Advance Range: Vacuum: 8.5-11deg Adv @ 7.9 In. Hg; Centrifugal: 8-13deg @ 1600 rpm,

much easier than with the 009. However I recall hearing that a 1600 can take up to 30deg total advance. Should I try advancing it some?

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You already have it at 32 degrees advance IF the max centrifugal comes in at 24.5 You add initial to max to get total: 7.5 + 24.5 = 32

You either need a degree wheel on your balancer or a timing light with a dial to read max advance.

Do NOT count vacuum advance in the figure.

Do NOT advance it more!

to read max advance.

Aaah, okay...I was not quite certain how to get the max advance out of those numbers. I don't have a degree pulley or fancy timing light, so I was pretty much just eye-balling things passed on pictures I found online. Think I'll take the "it works don't mess with it" approach for now.

Thanks, Harry

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If you've got a computer you can PRINT a better degree-pulley than you can buy. Or, you can calculate divisions into the rim of your existing pulley. Just paint a section of the rim white, work out the divisions and make a neat scratch THROUGH the white to reveal the black. It will show up okay, even with a ten dollar timing light from Harbor Freight.

The key point here is Don't Guess. Your engine is a well-engineered piece of goods that deserves more than casual mis-management. If you settle for Gudenoff Engineering you'll end up pissing away thousands of dollars worth of fuel like the fellow bragging that the -009 'works for me.'

-Bob Hoover

Not bragging Bob, just giving hints on what works for me. I do not piss away thousands of dollars on fuel except on the Puma with the webers unless getting 23 mpg with that set up is ok. Most of my driving is 60 mph and even my bus with the dual carbs gets 22 mpg with the 009 in it. My 74 super always got about 25 -26 mpg and when I get it back together this spring, I plan to get that much again. This is running with E-10 which I have ran for 15 years or more. This "fellow" is just sharing what has worked in a group forum which ask's for opinions and experience. Just as you do, I stand on my experience on the 009, synthetic fluids and other subjects that I have used with good results over the years. A while back I believe you agreed on the merits of by pass filtration and offered a complete explaination and applications including military. I respect your knowledge and your sharing. Dennis aka the "fellow".

Heh. Thanks Bob. My guess was a fairly educated one though, as I made sure to verify the pulley was indexed correctly and then found pictures of where the mark should be in relation to features on the case

Again, thanks to everyone.

Peace, Harry

In 1994 I posted an article explaining the difference between vacuum- and centrifugal-advance distributors, pointing out that at highway speeds it didn't really matter what you were using since your advance would be all-in at anything above 3000 rpm. I also pointed out that people who leapt from tall buildings in order to prove that man could fly could honestly chant 'It works for me!' all the way to the ground.

Clearly, some folks got the message, And some folks didn't.

Here in southern California the media offers traffic advisories citing average transit time and miles-per-hour between various junctions of the freeway system. For about eight hours of every week-day, typically covering the period when approximately sixteen million people commute to and from work or school, the MAXIMUM POSSIBLE SPEED on the freeway system is often less than 30 miles per hour and even that is only achieved through a jerky progression of stop-&-go driving. Under those conditions it was not uncommon to see posts from owners of bugs and buses complaining of getting only 12 to 16 miles per gallon in their kewl -009 equipped engines.

You are the Mechanic-in-Charge of your vehicle. Whatever you choose to run is fine with me. But the overwhelming majority of VW owners -- and manufacturers -- have found that a distributor incorporating vacuum-advance not only gives better mileage but prolongs the life of the engine.

-Bob Hoover

Thanks Bob, Since almost all of my driving is at about 60 mph, I now understand why I get good mileage and why others might not driving out in your traffic situations. Dennis