Do it myself? Or let the shop?

I posted this under a different, older thread, a couple days ago, but I'd like to make it a standalone topic so I can get all the good advice this NG is famous for.*

For my 71 bus's new engine, I asked my local VW shop to quote installing a good outboard oil filter, an oil cooler, and add oil pressure and oil temp gauges. Since it's a new engine I don't need to swamp the oil galleries. They came back at about $560, split pretty evenly between parts and labor. Which is not an unfair price considering that a shop has a lot of overhead to take care of, but about $160 more than I feel comfortable spending.

A couple kind souls on this NG have provided some bits and pieces of do-it-yourowndamnself oil-modification information for me, but I'm hoping I can find a really thorough "how to" so I can determine how practical is it a job for me to do. Maybe VW Trends ran such an article?

Oh -- if it requires pulling the engine, welding or metal fabrication, I'm going to farm it out to the shop. That's well beyond my meager skills or toolset. I'd only make a mess of things, clutter the driveway with bits of metal, piss off the family, and generally bring down property values.

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot
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So why didn't you think of this when the engine was out and bus apart? That would have been the ideal time! You can add the oil pressure temp gauges without tearing much apart. And if you take your time do a better job than a dealer probably can. Why not add a tach and voltmeter at same time. There are add on oil filters that replace the stock oil pump or a fittining to goes on oil pump (recommend a high flow HD one) so you can add cooler and remote filter --- just requires removing exhaust and old oil pump. Other solutions require more engine disassembly and even block taping. Suspect the qute you got was the add on pieces.

Reply to
Wolfgang

There are many ways to accomplish this, but one of the easiest ones has to be this:

1) buy an oil pump with a cover that hass an outlet fitting. 2) if the pump has an internal outlet (located at 10-11 o'clock on the pump body when it's mounted onto the engine) Thread it or have it threaded and plug it with a threaded metal plug. This is a DIY job, you just need a tap and a bolt with suitable thread size. Cut the end of the bolt off, maybe half an inch long, just long enough to sink into the threaded outlet hole so it won't interfere with the case when you install the pump later. Use Loctite thread locking compound to secure it in place. CLEAN, de-greased surfaces! To be able to screw the bolt end in, make a screwdriver slot at the end of it with a hacksaw blade or something. 3) mount the pump with gasket and some thin sealant. (removing and installing pump is easier if you loosen a few of the surrounding 13mm case nuts and bolts), fit the pump cover too and use sealant (liberally) in the threads. Torque nuts evenly. Tighten case nuts & bolts now if you loosened them before. 4) run a good quality hose from the oil pump cover outlet to the oil filter stand (which you would need to buy and mount somewhere convenient) MAKE SURE you hooked the filter stand the right way, they should have arrows indicating oil flow direction. 5) run the return hose from the filter stand to this device, offered by aircooled.net :
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might want to surf their site for more related items and to pick up more information. Note that this adapter makes the engine warm up SLOWER than normal, causing a little bit of increased wear. (too cold an engine wears more than fully warmed up one). Luckily, you have a heavy bus, so the engine would warm up faster than a beetle engine anyway, assuming you started driving almost immediately after starting the engine. Leaving it to warm up at idle would serve no purpose. 6) oh yea, buy the filter and install it :) You might want to fill it with oil directly from the can at first, to minimize "pumping up" time during which the engine would get NO lubrication until the filter got full.

Others please add or correct if you think I missed something crucial.

Note: if your bus has a rear engine support that mounts right behind the oil pump, there might not be enough room for a pump cover with an outlet.

Note2: With the hoses, use proper screw-on fittings if you can, or if you use "slip over" gardenhose type fittings, then invest on some REAL high quality hose clamps. Those are the weak spots in all of this. You might be able to fit two of them side by side at each joint for added security.

Jan

Reply to
Jan Andersson

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Note 3: If you place the oil FILTER in a location where it gets lots of fresh air flowing around it, it will act as an oil COOLER as well. Marginal maybe, but in a heavy bus every little bit helps prolong engine life. For cold winters, you could in turn relocate it to somewhere hotter, like between the cylinders and exhaust muffler where there's plenty of hot air available. This is a bad place for a filter in the summer.

Jan

Reply to
Jan Andersson

It's about $400 if you do it yourself, and the engine does NOT have to come out, provided it's a dual relief engine case.

There is an adapter that makes it a bolt in on dual relief engines.

John Aircooled.Net Inc.

Reply to
John Connolly

Um, how about I didn't own the bus when the PO had the new engine installed?

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot

Since do you 'don't want to' or 'can't handle' pulling the engine by yourself about the only thing you CAN do easily is install the oil pressure/temp gauges.

It would be a real PITA to install an oil filter or cooler without some elbow room. You might want to consider collecting the right tools etc to enable you to pull your engine. It isn't that difficult and you get faster each time.

ogg

Reply to
ogg

Isn't that what old car ownership is all about?

puzzled,

nate

(probably should get the pieces of my supercharger setup boxed up and off the kitchen table before the landlady returns...)

Reply to
Nate Nagel

On the other hand, we are talking about a bus.

Max

Reply to
Max Welton

Mike, where do you live? If there is a VW club handy, they can help you with an engine drop. It really is becoming one of those basic skills for long-term VW ownership. VW people are among the most helpful of any hobby I've been involved with. And as far as dropping the engine, a bus is probably the easiest type, this side of a Baja bug.

In fact, one of the local bus owners in my area will be borrowing me and my tools some time soon to full-flow his bus engine. What we'll do is lower the engine so that it rests on two pairs of 4x4 (scrap wood I have laying around) under the heater boxes. Something like this:

http://63.230.74.177/enginestand/MVC-037F.JPG The work can now be done on the rear of the engine (remove the pulley, the oil pump, drill & tap the case for the oil return line and so forth. When that's done, the engine can simply be lifted back into position.

If you have someone who has done it before, it's an afternoon. Took me a full day doing the full-flow operation for the first time. When actually drilling it's good to have someone to apply the compressed air with one hand and the shop vac nozzle with the other. Your hands will be busy with the drill.

Anyway, my $.02.

Max

Reply to
Max Welton

Horse pucky.

Reply to
jjs

Southern California. San Diego North County. In Carlsbad.

Where's the O-fficial list o' VW clubs?

Worth more than two cents. I got a quote from Aircooled for the parts, so it looks like doing the job with the help of someone saves me about $160 over the quote that the local shop gave. It's a tough decision. Sure, I'll learn a lot by doing it myself. And the local shop fumbled the carb install a bit by leaving the coil loose so it fell out of its bracket, and not tightening one of the fuel hoses -- had gas spraying all over the engine. That was lovely. But I'm not confident in my skills and hesitate to try to talk someone into "helping" when in fact I would merely be his assistant. It's my primary vehicle, so this is not a job that can be done in bits and pieces, as time permits.

This is Rocket J Squirrel, thinking it all over.

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot

Hello Rocky.Your '71 is the last year(U.S.) that has a removeable panel at the rear that permits engine removal while the bus sits on 4 wheels.Also, the T1 motor is so much easier to handle(smaller,lighter).All you need is the time and manuals(and parts).I would try this task just for the experience.The money saved would not be large.Then again its not a needed modification(in my opinion).Stock cooling and frequent oil changes are good enough for all but the most severely driven cars.Steve

Reply to
Ilambert

Thanks for the insight retort but having installed the aforementioned upgrades on several BUS engines it is not something to be undertaken by an owner who balks at the task of pulling the engine. Yes you CAN do it with the engine installed, during a blizzard, with an angry dog chewing on your pants-leg, but for a first timer to disassemble, drill and tap, route the oil lines, reassemble it would be rather frustrating and painful to the knuckles -IMHO. And anyway, 71's are FUN and EASY to work on.

ogg

Reply to
ogg

I don't know about clubs / people in your area. But perhaps someone reading this does?

Also, there's a nifty site for the Aircooled Interstate Rescue Squad (AIRS) that might allow you to find someone local.

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Also, consider posting the question to
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At some point you will find someone who knows some who can help. Pretty helpful crowd over there.

Yep. The couple of bucks you save is trivial compared to the skills you gain. Sooner or later, you'll be at the side of the road with a busted whatzit. Some of those skills may get you home.

Perfect! Know what it's like to "help" someone who "knows it all"?

The majority of folks in this hobby are more than willing to help ("Mentor" may be a better word) someone earlier on the learning curve. Know that none of us were born knowing how to drop the engine out of a VW. You can look forward to teaching it to someone else some day.

I certainly enjoy helping people in this way. After all, it's the only time anyone ever listens to me!

Roger, Rocky. Max out. ;-)

Reply to
Max Welton

"Max Welton" wrote

Huh? ;)

We have clearance Clarence. Roger, Roger.

-- Scott

Reply to
Scott H

What's our vector, Victor?

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot

Reply to
EuroBug

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