1. Home
  2. Volkswagen, hot (Aircooled)
  3. horn rim shocks & starter won't turn - ghia

horn rim shocks & starter won't turn - ghia

been six yrs since I dismantled my ghia - I've forgotten a lot of stuff.

I'm testing stuff. engine still out of car. trying the horn: sat on floor of car, wearing short pants, with bare legs touching the aluminum door 'sill' plate, and went to beep the horn. horns blow, but I get a shock _when_ it's blowing, thru the horn rim/doorsill 'connection'. I thought "this is weird", so I ran a 12volt bulb test light from good ground (pin of door strap) to horn rim itself, which blows the horn, withOUT my pressing the horn rim, soon as the wire 'connects' the two! this the way it's 'supposed' to work? does this mean my horn rim is 'always hot', electrically? stuff behind the horn rim is assembled I believe correctly: the three tiny screws and wire under that tiny 90degree thing, the nylon insulators, small springs etc. anybody ever jump their horn rim TO ground, and see what happens, withOUT pressing the horn rim to blow the horn?

possibly related: all lights, wipers, etc function correctly, BUT the starter won't turn when I turn the key all the way over to 'start' position. all wires are connected at the starter correctly. when the key's IN the 'start' position, the little red light in the speedo dims slightly, and I hear a VERY faint thunk, but that's -all- that happens. I've (temporarily) run a good thick ground cable from the battery neg to the transaxle case, bolted. would some of the small engine wires still being disconnected (at that tiny silver box near the ign coil, maybe) cause the starter NOT to turn? I just want to reassure myself the starter IS 'viable' before I stick the engine back in...what's my next move?

my buddy says I should jump the "big hot" on the starter directly to the "small spade" terminal of the starter, and if the starter turns THEN, that means I have either a bad ignition switch or some other wiring problem. should I do this next, or some other move? battery is "known good" and fully charged up...

thanks for clues,

Mr. Ibin Shocked

Reply to
bill yohler
Loading thread data ...

The horn ring is live. The shock you feel isn't 12V, but rather the "inductive kick" from the horn relay winding when the ckt opens. If you're really worried about it, you can bypass the relay winding with a "snubber"; use something like a .1 uF capacitor in series with a 10 Ohm resistor. I wouldn't use a diode across the winding in this case because it will make the relay slow to drop out.

On the starter, your buddy has good advice. Jump to the small spade; if the starter engages, the starter is OK.

If that tests OK, try jumping from #30 to #50 right at the Ignition switch. That will tell if the switch is OK.

You don't say what year car, but it's possible that the Headlight switch is part of the problem. In early years, all power up front has to pass thru the Headlight switch first and they often develop large voltage drop in the switch terminals.

Speedy Jim

formatting link

Reply to
Speedy Jim

That can't be right!

The wire that comes up thru the hollow steering shaft is ground (via the steering gear box) and it connects to the horn ring.

Guess I gotta go out and pry mine apart...

Speedy Jim

formatting link

Reply to
Speedy Jim

I looked at my '71-style and it's definitely non-shock design; the wire attached to the half-ring is grounded.

Guess you'll have to tell us what year yours is...

Speedy Jim

formatting link

Reply to
Speedy Jim

thanks for your reply, so far, speedy jim :-)

my car's a 71 ghia coupe, VIN 141293014

I'm in florida, so it's REAL hot here, I'm sweating, bare legs (excellent ground to doorsill, in other words)-much more conductive ground than guys in 'cooler climes' would get in short pants, I'd guess.

so, the shock is "normal under the circumstances described" in other words? that's all the concerns me...I'm just concerned it might be indicative of some sort of malfunction

I'm not at all concerned with the shock ITSELF, really, 'cause I'd normally never ever be sitting that way when using the horn, OR driving the car, but more concerned with a 'short' or 'bare wire' chaffing somewhere type thing....

will do :-) & thanks for the confirm :-)

um, one thing I didn't add, that didn't seem relevant: the locking 'function' of the ign switch seems non-functioning - the steering wheel won't lock when key is removed. that I care 'little to none' about.

also, wires apparently coming from steering wheel/hown assembly area 'harness' to where they go up into just behind the gas tank (under dash there) appear to -either- have had their black insulation outer layer 'cut away', OR the years and heat ALONE over the years have made them "look that way" :-/ however, -function-wise-, the headlight switch/parking lights switch in dash seems 100% functional....

uhh, on a re-read of your last paragraph above: uhhh, so you're inferring, possibly: without either the engine installed and running, or some "darn close approximation of same", electrically-amp-flow-wise, it's possible the starter's not getting enough juice (thru the headlight switch, et al) to even manage a "reluctant groan" of a partial turn of the starter? again, the battery was, and is, "100% known good, known strong, fully charged" and had cranked over my mazda pickup earlier that very same day....ran the maz till full warm-up, shut the engine, then took the batt out for the ghia.

thanks again, much :-)

Reply to
bill yohler

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.