Interesting Ignition Revelation

I installed a factory new engine and replaced all electrical, ignition and fuel distribution system components this Dec.-Jan. Never reeally got everything running right, but acceptable at times. The engine sounded "restrained" if that's a proper way to describe it, and it had major hesitations in accleration and was generally low on power. I was at once tweaking the settings and learning to live with a disappointing outcome to my restoration.

Then yesterday morning, I was cruising down the Interstate when--*pop-pop*-- total engine failure. Got off to the side of the road, checked all obvious sources of trouble, distributor cap, wires, plugs in the heads, fuel, etc., etc. Nothing appeared out of the ordinary, but the engine would not even fire.

I was ready to give up; was shaking my head and talking on the cell phone ready to arrange the tow (this would have been the third tow since engine replacement) when an amazing thing happened.

A Good Samaritan stopped on the margin behind me and inquired about the situation. When stuck by the roadside, I ususally greet the arrival of the well-meaning motorist with a mixture of gratitude and dismay, as usually the well-intentioned person would like to help but knows nothing whatsoever about VWs. In this case, though, I was lucky, and the volunteer was a VW expert who performs roadside service.

We proceded with diagnostics of fuel and ignition and eventually removed the SVDA Distributor with Quadra-Fire electronic ignition and replace with an old reliable .009. Jockeyed the dist. around a little, beetle fired right up, and off I went. Now what's interesting about this whole long saga is that as I was limping back to my shop with the loaner dist., I noticed that Bug was running like my Beetles of old--snappy acceleration, no hesitation, no vibration, rattling; no feeling of an engine "restrained" or sluggish. It was a pleasure to drive.

I'm not condemning electronic ignition, except to say that my reason for installing it was to maybe make the new engine run better,a nd be more reliable. In this case, it failed on both counts. It is possible that this was simply a fluke and that I had a bad distributor/ignition setup right from the start.

I would appreciated any comments on the merits or demerits of the electronic (Quadrafire) ignition system, or whether its best to just install a stock .009 distributor.

Randall Brink

Reply to
Randall Brink
Loading thread data ...

a .009 is NOT a stock distributor -- is a mechanical distributor -- meaning that the advance timing device is mechanically driven, not vacuum driven!

a stock VW distributor is vacuum driven. the electronic distributor is more than likely a Vacuum Advance as well!!

I, myself like the .009 for all pancakes!

BBA

Reply to
Billy Bad Assr©

As a matter of fact, I think I have an old centrifugal/mecjhanical driven distributor, with no vacuum canister. Perhaps I should polish it up and use it!

Do you have an opinion as to the benefitsof the mechanical over the vacuum advance?

Randall Brink

Reply to
Randall Brink

I use the 009 with electronic system (I've used different types of pointless systems). One interresting note is after the installation last year in the Puma it ran sluggish and seemed to float above 3800rpm. It was an old system I got years ago from JC Whitney with an 009 which had a seperate module mounted on the firewall. Since I had nothing to lose, I called JCW which gave me the factory number. They told me this was very common in electronic ignitions if the wires from the pick-up were doubled over each other, looped or wraped to close to each other or around the dist itself as it sets up a magnetic field of its own which distrupts the signal and only grows stronger as the RPM increases. Sure enough, that was the problem. Works great at all rpms now.

href="

formatting link
">Den's1977 Puma

Reply to
Dennis Wik

That is extremely interesting, because in my case, I had wires rather indiscriminately routed and overlappiong, and didn't give any thought to it at all--yet it makes sense electronically when you think of the very high voltage that passes through from the alternator, and particularly, the coil!

I'm now wondering if my compufire components are fried, or just failed went down at that particular time due to a overvoltage or voltage field disturbance.

Randall Brink

href="

formatting link
">Den's> 1977 Puma

>
Reply to
Randall Brink

No, there is a combination vacuum and mechanical advance.

Reply to
jjs

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 10:33:01 -0800, "Randall Brink" scribbled this interesting note:

Here's one place to read up on the pro's and con's:

formatting link
Here's a good place to "learn up" on things:
formatting link
Here's another:
formatting link

And if all else fails, you can search for a day or two here:

formatting link
read all you want about air cooled VWs. You'll get all kinds of opinions about those 009 units. More than one flame war has raged over those. Suffice it to say that it seems most new units are garbage, all 009s were meant to be used in industrial applications originally, and your car originally came with a combination vacuum/mechanical advance unit of one kind or another.

-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

Reply to
John Willis

compufires die in 009s as commonly as vac advance. Which distributor it was in has nothing to do with it.

The SVDA is 10X better then a 009, you'll see after you get the lemon Compufire replaced.

John Aircooled.Net Inc.

href="

formatting link
">Den's

Reply to
John Connolly

This actually sounds like the classic symptom of no advance.

It COULD be that the electronic ignition was malfunctioning, but I would expect that to give you different symptoms. I think it's more likely that the thing that made the difference was that the loaner distributor had a functioning advance.

Have you checked the advance in your own dist? What kind of advance does it have? If you were using a vacuum advance dist with a carb that it did not come with, then this could also be the problem. The vacuum advance curve is matched to the vacuum provided at the vacuum port. Not all ports are the same.

-

----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

-----------------------------------------------

Reply to
Jim Adney

yes there are several combo designs-- more than likely he doesn't have one - he would NOT have noticed much of a positive improvement using a .009 Distributor!!

Reply to
Billy Bad Assr©

We don't test for smog in Idaho, so I don't have that to worry about.

Reply to
Randall Brink

a 009?

Using a mechanical dist. give me options i.e. I can change the springs i.e. changes the dist advance!

plus there is no delay -- vacuum advance = Emission (smog) Controlled Dist. Advance - Take Heed >> you may NOT pass a smog test with the mechanical inplace!

-- BBA °?° BBA's RC Site -

formatting link
Privacy Matters --
formatting link

Reply to
Billy Bad Assr©

There are dozens and dozens of stock distributors, each type was built and fitted by the factory on aircooled VW's at some point:

Mechanical only (Old buses for example) Vacuum only (older beetles and buses) Vacuum & mechanical (later model aircooleds, from the 70's up)

IN ADDITION there's the "aftermarket" 009 distributor, which was never installed by the factory. Bosch part number ends in 009.

ON TOP OF THAT, there's also a vacuum assisted distributor, that has a part number that ends in 009 as well. (VW part number)

Jan

Reply to
Jan Andersson

href="

formatting link
">Den's>> 1977 Puma

Have you ever tried picking up a distant station on an AM radio with one of those ferrite rod antennas? Turn it one way and you've got the station, 90 degrees out and it's gone. Same thing happens on a set of electronic distribution wires to a point. If they run too close to each other they can either reinforce (or usually) impede each other. Field effect of sorts.

Charles of Kankakee.

Reply to
Charles Fregeau

if a 009 wouldn't have caused a positive improvement why do you "like the .009 for all pancakes! "?... must be something good about em....

Reply to
Joey Tribiani

there are several mechanical only distributors...

as you can with the SVDA distributors vw used...

vacuum advance distributors were not "emission" distributors...you think they gave a rats ass about emissions in the early years when vacuum advance distributors were being installed?...the "emission" distributors you refer to were the DVDA distributors...maybe you should stick to little R/C cars?....hell i'd just run over em with my hyper....

Reply to
Joey Tribiani

don't forget the DVDA's....

Reply to
Joey Tribiani

I had assumed that the vehicle in question was a later model

so I forget shit -- happens all the time -- comes from old age

Maybe you should help out rather than being a self-righteous prick!!!

....I certainly like to see you try....

BBA

Reply to
Billy Bad Assr©

That stupid contraption is for the narrow US smog regulated market only so I didn't care to mention it, I just listed the most commonly used distributor types ;)

Jan

Reply to
Jan
Reply to
David Gravereaux

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.