Intermittent starter

Hey all, The starter on my '60 12 volt ragtop is driving me nuts. It mostly works, but occasionally when I turn the key neither the solonoid or starter functions. If I keep turnign the key it eventually starts and then turns over fine. When I restored the car last year I replaced everything, but the starter, including the ignition switch, so I am thinking bad starter. Is there anything else that could cause it to be intermittent like that?

--Dan E

Reply to
Braukuche
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Is the engine or transmission grounded properly? Possibly wiring to the solenoid or maybe bad battery connections!

Which starter did you install? Manual or Automatic type? Or is it the 6V original starter with a 12V battery?

later, dave Reminder........ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their shoes. Frieda Norris

Reply to
dave

If you don't even get a click from the solenoid, the Ignition switch is the likely culprit. As a test, make up some kind of jumper wire so you can bypass direct to the solenoid when it happens next time.

Speedy Jim

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Reply to
Speedy Jim

Maybe worn brushes in starter, a light tap with a hammer during a no start will prove it.

Reply to
Douglas

Regular 12 volt manuakl starter. Grounds are all good. Will check the solonoid wire.

--Dan E

Reply to
Braukuche

Doesn't Muir show a way to wire in some Ford solenoid bypass to provide better juice to the starter? I had a problem with my then-new starter so I wired mine up as suggested and haven't had a problem since.

Reply to
Michael Cecil

And what did you do the bushing inside of the transmission since the 12V starter shaft should be smaller in diameter? You need to put in that modified bushing in the trans. later, dave

Reply to
dave

Car is one a '68 pan, so it has a ;ater tranny with a 12v bushing.

--Dan E

Reply to
Braukuche

and is that a new starter bushing inside? did you try a remote starter switch to bypass the regular ignition switch? I also will assume that this is the 68 engine or flywheel also.

later, dave Reminder........ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their shoes. Frieda Norris

Reply to
dave

Hi! This is part of a post from From: Josef Subject: Re: Occasional no-start Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled Date: 2003-08-21 19:16:18 PST

I added a wire to terminal 50 on the solenoid where the red/black wire is attached with a push on connector for the remote starter switch circuit. So now, if it does not start, I just lift the rear seat, put the fuse in, and touch the end of the wire to the positive post on the battery while the key in the ignition switch is in the 'on' position.

And I mounted the hard start relay inside the car, behind the rear seat in the luggage storage area where it won't get wet or dirty. I don't put anything back there anyway. Later I might get a metal electronic project box from Radio shack or somewhere and mount it over the relay to act as a protective cover.

I know this is really a bandaide on your elbow for the sore on your knee quick fix but, I didn't want to go through the ordeal and expense of replacing the wiring harness.

I think since the wires are over 30 years old, resistance has built up in the wires and under certain conditions cause a hard start or so start condition where you turn the key and the dash warning lights come on but there is no click sound and the engine does not turn over. This relay eliminates this occasional problem and makes it easy to start and allows less current to the ignition switch and avoids frying the electrical contacts inside the switch.

LOL jp73vwbttl

Reply to
Sleepy Joe

I have isolated the problem. I replaced the starter, and still have the problem. I tried chort circuiting the ignition switch and still no start, so I assume the problem is not in the switch. I then crossed the battery terminal to the solenoid and got the engine to turn, so I beleive the problem lies with my wiring. I will install a relay, but need some specifics. What sort of relay should I get? I have a 12 volt system, so I know I need a 12 volt relay, but on top of that I am clueless. Any help would be appreciated.

--Dan E

Reply to
Braukuche

On 23 May 2004 00:18:11 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnojunk (Braukuche) ran around screaming and yelling:

Dan, you have identified the "problem" as the wiring, yet you want to put in a relay instead of fixing the problem? makes no sense...if it is a wiring short between the ignition switch and the starter solenoid you need to fix it because it is a fire hazard...as for specifics, use 8 guage wire.. JT

Reply to
Joey Tribiani

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That's a common garden-variety Bosch relay you can find at any auto parts store.

Speedy Jim

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Reply to
Speedy Jim

On Sat, 22 May 2004 20:47:39 -0400, Speedy Jim ran around screaming and yelling:

GRRRRR JT

Reply to
Joey Tribiani

If you have the Muir manual, it has a diagram and some notes on this near the appendix I believe. Well, my 15 year old copy does but they may have edited the position of those details around.

Reply to
Michael Cecil

Nah, just slap a relay in there. Next to that little plastic fuel filter that's between the fuel pump and carb, beside the fuel line that is attached to that pressed in fitting on the carb that tends to come loose, just above the spot in the fan shroud where the rubber fuel line goes through and gets rubbed by those sharp metal edges. And while you're in there remove all of the engine tin and yank out that useless thermostat assembly. Remove the decklid. It's just extra weight. Advance that 009 distributor several degrees and it'll give you a few extra horsepower, ditch the oil bath air cleaner for a paper element along with one of those "tornado" things that gives you about 10 extra mpg, trash the stock exhaust and put on some of those megaphone dual exhaust systems, attach a magnet to the fuel line to increase atomization of the fuel for more power and economy. Wrap the coil in a Budweiser beer carn. Add some Slick 50 to the engine oil and drain that GL-4 from the tranny and fill it up with some new-fangled GL-5. Get a couple of those coffee-can exhaust tips and put them on along with some performance stickers that intentionally misspell stuff like "phat" and "Volkswagon." Get a bumper sticker that says "Back off or I'll flick a booger on your windshield" and "My kid beat up your honor student." Replace the stock crank pulley with one of those smaller underdrive pulleys. Install curb-feelers up front and neon lights all around the perimeter of the car. A set of fuzzy dice hanging from the rear-view mirror (one of those rear-view mirrors that has about 8 mirrors on it and is 4 feet wide) should finish up the job. Oh, and be sure to take pictures of it all. ;-)

Reply to
Shaggie

I kinda agree with Joey, You need to find out what is wrong with the existing wiring. Maybe a bad connection somewhere causing your starter activation problem. It might cause other problems in the future too! Doing some simple tests with a voltmeter and possibly ammeter may help you find your problem. You do have to check the wiring and the connectors that are in the starter wiring circuit.

I am not sure how your wiring is now since you grafted a early 60s body on a 68 pan.

I have done some 12 volt conversions on 6 volt Type 1s and found that some of the ignition switches could not take the amperage going through them and smoked. IIRC you said you jumped the proper wires together at the ign. switch and the starter did not operate. Try using a jumper cable from the battery and feed the starter wire at the ign. switch to see if that does the trick.

AND YOU BETTER HAVE VERY CLEAN AND TIGHT TERMINALS AT THE BATTERY!!!! Also how did you get power to the ign. switch? Does the switch get power from the former voltage regulator? Been too long for me to remember! lol

later, dave Reminder........ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their shoes. Frieda Norris

Reply to
dave

On Sat, 22 May 2004 20:48:04 -0400, Joey Tribiani scribbled this interesting note:

Down boy!:~)

-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

Reply to
John Willis

I got tired of pushing to start it after a long hot run. I just wired in a push button between the battery and an "extra" spade connector on the solenoid. The button is mounted in the gray vinyl covered masonite kick plate under the back seat. So whenever the key punks out....I give it a reach around (hahaha) and hit the button. It always works..........relay next....Eric 68 Bug cab 62 Ghia

Reply to
Stutzsr

..............That's exactly what I did on my '77 bug. Works great!

Reply to
Tim Rogers

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