OT: American national ID card

And you still have government-paid health care and retirement? Let me give an example of just one American mess - A secretary working for the State spends 40% of her income for health insurance.

We have a saying about the USA.. if you want to live there, stay a( healthy and b) employed. Otherwise you're screwed.

Here, if you really don't want to work, you can still make ends meet just sitting on your sofa watching cable and getting fat. Not fair.. I'm paying for that.

Jan

Sounds pretty much screwy as the USA taxes..............'cept, the folks that have no money are paid extra to have babies and are given health care on the tax payers dime, then they bitch about how crappy the health care they're getting is...................I am so tired of the free loaders in my life. I wish there was a way to penalize the jerks that make the laws so easily abusable. Then maybe they'd think twice about giving away tax monies to folks that just flat don;t deserve them.

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MUADIB®

You don;t have to be employed here either. It actually pays to be a dreg here too.

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MUADIB®

That is very wise, Jan, and quite true.

...........You're both completely wrong. The United States has Medicare for the elderly, Medicaid for the needy, welfare assistance for the very poorest and unemployable, food stamps, federally funded unemployment insurance, disaster relief (FEMA), Social Security benefits for the elderly and disabled and anyone.........even you two.......can go to any hospital (that participates in Medicare & Medicaid which is nearly all of them) that has an emergency room and get an acute illness treated regardless of whether you have any money or health insurance (federal law).

.............This bullshit needs to stop.

On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:07:24 GMT, "Tim Rogers" scribbled this interesting note:

And they say we are an uncharitable bunch!

-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

Which bullshit?..........the actual "benefits, or the discussion of the freebies????...............LOL

Both are in the worng forum, but it was posted as OT I believe.

( I agree with the US welfare state being BS, but I like the discussion. Especially with people I can identify with. We may not all have direct knowledge of one another, but we all have *some* knowledge and understanding of the folks we visit with here in this group. I find it very interesting and educational when the rest of the world chimes in...... Instead of the US media telling us things their way.)

Anyone disagree with me on the media being Horse hockey>????

How are things going in Iraq?...........any progress? Nothing to report except the occaisional dead american (or other nationality........as long as it's death) soldier.............Nothing getting better,.........nothing positive............... r i i i i i i i g h t ................. Fill me in on the good stuff too. as far as that memo Shaggy was linking to the article about,...............Where's the rest of the media on this topic???? Asleep?...............or did someone do their homework and realize it's all Hoooey? Enquiring minds wanna know!

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MUADIB®

"Tim Rogers"

So offer some advice, Tim. How does a full-time state employee qualify for free medical assistance? I'm speaking of the secretary who's health insurance represents 40% of her take-home.

I realize you have a special view of the universe - working in a hospital and all.

..................You don't have to 'qualify'. You just walk into an ER and say that you're sick. If they refuse to take care of you, they run a huge risk of losing their right to turn in any bill for any patient to Medicare/Medicaid. When you get a bill afterward (they can't make you pay in advance), just tell them that you want to make minimum payments over a period of several years. They have to agree to this even though they may not be very up front about it. The federal govt. has compleyely tied the hands of this country's hospitals on these issues. If you don't want to pay a physician's bill, let them go to court for it if you think it's too much of a burden to pay it.. They almost always lose those kinds of cases when there's a jury and will probably settle for a lesser amount to just be able to move on unscathed by a court system that has them by the throat most of the time anyway.

..............Private medical insurance is expensive and should only be considered by those who think that they can afford it. If your secretary friend has chronic medical problems that put her at risk for taking out a lot more than she puts in to the pool of money that insurance companies use to reimburse hospitals and doctors, she'll no doubt have to pay a lot for a policy. Here's an incomplete list of things that I can think of that would make any company hesitate to write a policy for her:

diabetes high blood pressure cigarette smoking morbid obesity (30% or higher excess weight) a history of bleeding disorders during & after surgery greater than 75 yrs. age a history of abuse of recreational drugs (especially by injection) alcoholism a prior diagnosis for any type of malignancy a family history for coronary disease prior to age 40 for males and prior to age 50 for females a family history for stroke prior to age 75

..............As state employee, I'm surprised that she's having any trouble at all getting on the group policy that every state offers to its employees. If she doesn't want to be in an HMO and is insisting on paying for a traditional fee for service type policy like Blue Cross/Blue Shield, then that would explain a lot.

I was refused health and life insurance because I got a physical exam every year. The State Attorney General said it was warranted. Go figure.

Never said she didn't have the group insurance. She does. I just said it soaked her for 40% of her salary - that's how expensive the insurance is and how crummy the pay is. A lot of people just decide not to buy insurance (for example, the people who work at Walmart) but she has no choice! She is forced to pay.

I'm biting my tongue. Anger from years of dealing from the sunny side of health care that Tim speaks of.

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I guess the bad experience I had was all my fault because I foolishly paid the bill. Had I known that paying for medical care was really optional because they really can't collect...

..............The cost of modern medicine is so high that you really shouldn't be concerned about traditional ideas of willingly paying the bills promptly and in full like it was a question of honor or something. Hospitals and doctors are doing very well compared to the average patient.......financially. Make them work to get their money from you. Make partial payments and make sure that they're late. Tell them that you'd like to make a good faith effort to pay but that you're not going to let them drive you out of your home. Tell them that you have responsibilities to support family members and that you have debts to other creditors. Talk tough John......you're pretty good at that.

If the pay is that bad, why is she working there?

If there are no good paying jobs there, why is she still living in that area?

Sounds like the issue is not whether or not her insurance is affordable or not. It sounds as though she settles for poor pay.

I had to step in on this, cause no one would let me highjack the thread back to the political arena....................and I have ideas on this too.................Ideas that are not welcome by most folks.

Tim,.............are you *for* denying care for those who cannot/will not pay? or against it? The answer is not important, but I am curious what your idea/view is on this subject. Mostly because of your chosen line of work.

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MUADIB®

She loves the area, has family here.

..............I'm for every person with an illness receiving medical care regardless of their ability to pay for it. I'm against any hospital or doctor withholding care to anyone for any reason. This system of healthcare here in the US is very close to already providing care to everyone who is seriously ill.......more so than most people realise. For chronic conditions that require long term treatment outside of a hospital, there is still a problem for people who can't afford private insurance but who do have an income that disqualifies them for governmental assistance. This situation varies quite a lot from state to state. Here in NY state, every underage minor is covered by a state funded medical plan that kicks in whenever a parent/guardian claims an inability to pay for longterm medical care including prescriptions, therapy, etc. When you combine this plan with the federally funded Medicare/Medicaid system that is available to almost every low-income adult aside from illegal foreign residents, there isn't too much room for many people to claim that they can't get treated for an illness.

..........I find it annoying to hear from those who claim that other countries have better healthcare systems than the USA. I actually know quite a lot about that subject and I can tell you that there are tremendous problems throughout western Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. with the quality of treatment and the timeliness of treatment for major illnesses. Especially for the people who are most in need such as the elderly and very young. If you're a 70 year old with congestive failure from a bad heart valve in Canada for example, good luck on getting it surgically corrected in time to prevent permanent damage to your cardiovascular system. The centers up there have a backlog that allows them generate good outcome stats because they never get to the high risk patients who need immediate intervention. They get sent home to wait their turn and often never make it back to major medical center for their procedure. No wonder there's so many retired Canadians in Florida. They get warmer weather AND better/more timely medical care.