Preparing & Painting My Bus

With the return of warm weather, I've turned my attention to getting my 1971 Type II, Turtle, ready to be my primary vehicle.

The part I want to focus on here is making the exterior look good. I would like to hear some suggestions.

What I have planned:

Finish chipping away the old, cracked body filler on various parts of the Bus, especially a large, thick section on the lower part of the front panel. Then, I'm going to prep these areas and repair them with fresh filler by applying thin layer upon thin layer until it looks like it's supposed to.

Then, after removing or masking the parts that I don't want painted, I'm going to prime it.

I want to paint the bottom portion shiny black and the top portion shiny yellow. So, I need to figure out the best way to accomplish this.

Here are some things I have to deal with:

I don't have the money, tools, or ability to replace panels (which would be the ideal answer for the front one). I can have my dad weld any tears there may be so they won't move and crack the overlaying body filler.

I'm more interested in having this look good than look showroom quality. It's going to be my daily driver and parked outside 24-7.

I'm doing all of the work outside because I don't have a garage (and Turtle has a hightop and won't fit into most garages anyway). So, I have to deal with wind and blowing dirt, insects, heat (around 100 degrees in the daytime), and occassional rain. The exception is, I plan to take it to Spearman, TX, and perform final painting in my father-in-law's shop (an old airplane hanger).

I don't have much of a budget so I want stuff that's good and durable (filler, primer, paint) but not top-of-the market expensive.

Thoughts and suggestions?

Thanks!

-- Christian

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Reply to
Christian M. Mericle
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After prep, I think key to a decent finish is using primer and paint that are compatible -- may want to stick to the same brand. I am not a painter, so I could be wrong. To spray, you will need a makeshif spray booth. Something you can keep dust to a minimum. The following works well for me spraying wood cabinets with uerethane so will probably also work on cars:

Clean your garage well, let the dust settle and cover the floor with plastic. Then, without stirring up too much dust, make a tent within your garage using thing plastic. Don't go banging nails in; just staple stuff to the joists. If you don't have access to a garage, you could make a tent out of PVC electrical tubing. One can even buy elbows, etc, for it.

The thin plastic is inherently statically charged and will draw dust particles to it. On one side of the tent, poke a hole and put the hose of a shop vac through it. Obviously, the shop vac is to be placed on the outside of the tent. You want a nagative draft (stuff to be sucked out of your tent or for it to stick to the plastic, not your work). You will need a decent size shop vac - I have a dust collector, which is made for constant duty and moves a lot of air. Harbor freight has one that would do well:

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Again, I have not tried this on cars, but it works really well on finishing cabinets. Others here probably have much better ideas.

Remco

Reply to
Remco

Obviously, the shop vac is to be placed on

May I dissagree ?

When I was in the electronics indutry our clean rooms used filtered positive air flow. That way any dust gets blown out any place your tent isnt airtight.

When its negative, air from outside your tent is being sucked in trought any gaps A- bringing any dust in from outside your tent and B-creating a draft which stirs up any settled dust (paint dust etc) from inside.

Rich

Reply to
tricky

B-creating

You're right, Rich - positive filtered air would be the best way to go, but this is the poor man's approach :) I am not looking for an area to be totally dust free, which would be impossible -- just for the dust to not be on the work or have it float around.

While I carry all the cabinets in my makeshift booth, dust is stirred up. Turn on a work light - you'll only think it was clean but know better when you light it up. The VAC/Dust collector just makes sure that this dust does not settle on any of my work or floats around. It wants to move towards the exhaust. If it wants to stick to my plastic, that works too.

When it has all settled, I usally turn the vac off but not sure if that hurts or helps. It is also a good idea to tack all surfaces one more time.

While the dust collector moves a lot of air, I have not seen it where it sucks more dust into the area but that might be different if the area was smaller. It seems to work because whatever external particles are moved towards the tent are statically tacked to the plastic when they get close (btw, I toss the plastic when I am done). In the past I've draped half the garage in sheets of plastic. If one applied this technique using a shipping box as a paint booth (tried that too) it may not work.

I used to spray without this setup by cleaning the area really well and being careful to make sudden movements :) Had to stay away from high gloss finishes, as it is pretty hard to apply without seeing specks. With this setup I've noticed a marked improvement. (Btw, not that I am a great fan of high gloss on wood, but it is a harder finish. I usually polish it with compound to knock the gloss off and sand out imperfections)

It works really well for me, but I've never used it spraying anything other than furniture or cabinets. Hopefully soon I'll try it on my bug (after getting heater channels/floor pans done, that is)

Reply to
Remco

Hey Rich, On my way home I thought of your statement of using positive air flow and was wondering what you think of this:

The following wouldn't work with a shop vac, but with a dust collector one has the option of having very fine filter bags. They are expensive but would trap all dirt and dust. One creates the same tent as described above but the dust collector is placed on the inside, creating a positive air pressure. The intake is going through some bulkhead to the outside, sucking in fresh air

I might give it a whirl on my next spray project to see if that works even better..

Reply to
remco

Black is the worse color to paint a NOT perfect repair job --- it will really show from a distance. Goo all yellow would be my recommendation --- or maybe a white roof. Sounds like the bondo was on too thick --- you need to bang the metal out so that it is 1/4" or less. Do all the prep, priming, trim removal and then take it to MAACO and have it painted --- you can't do it as cheap as they can nor as well unless you've painted 1/2 dozen vehicles before.

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ICC (Sudan) --
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Reply to
Wolfgang

This is good advice. The thing that generally makes a cheap paint job "cheap" (as in low quality) is that they spend the bare minimum time possible on prep. If you do all the body work, welding, filling, sanding, etc. and do a final wet sand and have an outfit like MAACO shot it you really can end up with a decent paint job. What I'd do is call them up and get pricing on their basic paint job. Then go down there and talk to the shop manager, tell him you want to get the basic paint job that cost X dollars and that you are going to do the body prep. Ask him what kind of primer is compatible with the paint he uses.

If you really want to make it look good you could do some of the trim tape up. The right way to tape up around your window glass is to slide some cord (insulated electrial wire, say 16 guage will work) between the rubber and the body so that the edge of the rubber stands up off the metal. Then tape the rubber up letting the tape curl under the back of the rubber. You could drive it down to the paint shop and let them finish putting paper on the windows and taping up to your tape. The MAACOs or Earl Schibes will never go to this trouble, they'll just tape close to the edge of the rubber - who cares if some of the window trim gets sprayed, right?

I've actually g> Black is the worse color to paint a NOT perfect repair job --- it will

Reply to
John Crichton

Macco and such use very "cheap" paint...you can get a decent "looking" job, but it may not last long....it also typically is the cheap paint that causes you distress later on if you decide to paint again....it will usually require it to be stripped off(the previous cheap-o paint) and can really make you rethink that bad decision....

Reply to
Joey Tribiani

Joey Tribiani wrote:

I had a basic polyurethane single coat paint job (i.e. not clear coat/base coat) done by Macco on a bug I used to own. Did all the prep work myself as described earlier. I think it was one level up from their cheapest job. It lasted a good 8 - 9 years and was still good (not perfect, slight fading and loss of shine. Something a good wax job would improve significantly). I sold the car at that point so I don't know what it would look like today. Keep in mind that this guy is talking about doing his own body work and buying the paint and shooting it himself. The fact that he would be first time auto painter is pretty much going to limit him to a polyurethane type paint that will be similar to what Macco is going to use. I don't think that a base coat/clear coat paint system is something that a novice painter should try to work with on his first try. So all things being equal if he paints it himself he is likely to end up with a paint quality no better nor worse than what Macco is likely to use. As the previous poster points out, he probably can't buy the materials much cheaper that what Macco will charge him to shoot it (they do get quantity pricing). Now, if the goal is to learn how to do auto body work and painting then I would say go for it. Do it all yourself and learn from the your mistakes that are likely to happen. If the goal is to have a decent looking vehicle with a decent (but not the best) paint job then I think the route I and the previous poster advocated is a reasonable route.

As a final comment, if you decide you want a particular brand and series of paint to be used you might even negotiate with them to use what you want and pay the difference. I have no first hand knowledge if this is doable but if you ask the worst they can do is say no.

Reply to
John Crichton

I used to work at a sign company and have shot paint (including a barebones job on a work truck). But, I wouldn't say that I'm very good at it (not terrible either). Since I don't plan to be paint vehicles very often, I'm not really interested in learning to make it look great. The Maaco idea sounds like the way to go. I'll do all the prep and have them shoot the paint.

Will there be any issues with the hightop or with the fact that I want two different colors shot instead of just one?

-- Christian

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Reply to
Christian M. Mericle

recommendation ---

You are probably right -- I couldn't paint a car for that little, so you gave me food for thought..

I've heard horror stories on MAACO, but most places have them.

In your experience, is their painting decent quality? I would not be looking for a show winning finish, but just something that holds up in New England. I've noticed they have several prices and was wondering if they use different paint for each one. Are they accomodating in painting the shell and fenders separately, you think? (like spray the whole thing, inside and out)

Might stop in the local MAACO and see what they can do.. Thanks for the suggestion.

getting

painted,

durable

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> ICC (Sudan) --
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Reply to
Remco

Hey Rich,

I used to use the woodworking news group years ago. One of the tips I remember was to use a paper air filter from a truck as a cheap option. Just go to your local auto store and ask them what is the biggest filter they can get !

Dont know what size particals it filters, but its on my list of things to try some day !

You could use a shop vac in a box with a filtered air outlet perhaps ? Depends how much air you need to shift I suppose .

Also, my dad had a car body repair shop when I was younger. I remember he had a hot air blower to his spray boothe.

It blew hot filtered air in above the car and sucked through another filter bellow the car. So the car was in kind of a clean air curtain.

That would take a bit more setting up though !

Rich

Reply to
tricky

John, i agree pretty much with your post...but the Macco shops use the cheapest paint they can get...... as a comparison, my 74 type 1(standard) was painted with Dupont "Chromabase" base/clear paint....after twelve years of weather(never garaged or covered) i sent it to the crusher.... it still shined like new...no fading, no peeling, and was still a "show quality" paintjob...(not the passenger side which i t-boned with my jeep...whoops...)...that is the difference between good prep and good materials vs. good prep and cheap materials....as far as DIY i feel the base/clear way is much more likely to yield a "good" paintjob for a novice, because you can fix any mistakes as you go...some single stage(enamels) can't even be watersanded and buffed out...not good for a first (*or second) timer....

Reply to
Joey Tribiani

Re: Painting bus. Your fiberglass hightop may require some special consideration but not likely. The choice of black is a bad one. If you must two-tone, select light colors. Keep the top white and you won't need as much of a cooler noted in your ather post. I won't weld on the body as you cannot reach the backside of most places to refinish what the heat has burned off - maybe in your area it is dry enough that rust is not a problem? By the sound of it, there may be some significant damage. Since you are trying for an okay look (looks great from across the street!) consider bonding patches with adhesives designed for the purpose.

One of the problems you face with the adhesive approach is initial cost for the adhesive and for the applicator gun. I used a flanging tool I made out of vice grips... Cut out the area being replaced and flange around the perimeter of the hole - an offset to allow the new panel to lay even or slightly below the regular surface. I used a good grade of epoxy from the local hardware store (but epoxy does shrink and does not remain flexible like the polyurethane panel adhesives.) I used flat-head pop rivets along with the epoxy. It's about 10 years later now and it still looks excellent. The filler and adhesive did shrink after a couple months of curing, so a trained eye can see the seam. The rust preventative on the inside of the panels is still intact.

Plan 2 is take some thinner sheet metal and simply pop rivet over the bad area, fill deep enough to blend and hide the pop rivets.

When using body filler, it is important that it has something to really attach itself to. Drill holes, grind massive grooves, do what you can to give it something to grab onto. If REALLY bad, use sheetmetal screws or pop rivets to attach some 1/4" mesh screen (hardware cloth) and fill it with the body filler. This is a good way to span deep fills, too, but make sure it can't work (move). Another way is to use expanding foam to fill really rusted out and deep hole areas (possibly using hardware cloth to suppoert it) then put screen or hardware cloth over the foam and fill with body filler (this method offers support so the patch doesn't "oilcan")

Body fillers drink water. You MUST seal the body filler. Primer is not a sealer - it will allow moisture to saturate the body filler unless sealed.

Maaco is an excellent plan for a low budget.

If you shoot it yourself, buses are easy. Do one panel at a time or alternate panels. Paint seam-to-seam. If you do multi color, use the rain gutter for your split as nobody will see the seam.

Paint outside after the trees and shrubs have ended their yearly sex acts and after the mosquito ponds have dried up. Paint early in the day. No - earlier than that! Spray a light mist of water wetting the ground all around the area where you're painting to keep dust down.

Maaco may use cheap paint, but if you aren't good at this (sounds like it's your first project) chances are your prep is gonna be the killer down the road a few years anyway and a cheap paint job that protects the body from rusting and looks good for 8 - 10 years is better than spending much more on paint and applying it yourself without the proper knowledge.... My Maaco job looked good for over 10 years. I think it was one of the $99 specials! I removed all the trim, lights, etc. It was a '76 Corrolla. Buses undoubtedly take more paint!

Consider - especially if the bus is really rough - one of the many DIY pickup bed liners, especially around the lower part of the body.

All offered herein are my opinions based on cheap, get-by-for-now experience! -BaH

Reply to
Busahaulic

If you are going to build up bondo, learn to do fiberglass. Put a layer of glass over any any sheet metal that is going to vibrate very much. Rough up the surface with a 3M paint remover wheel (Fiberglass need rough surface to bond - a mechanical bond) prior to glassing it. Putting in a layer of glass between layers of bondo will reduce the flexing that leads to cracks.

It's a lot of work and a little more money, but a thick layer of bondo guarantees bad results down the road.

Mark (this advice is worth what you paid for it) Dunning

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ICC (Sudan) --
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Reply to
Mark Dunning

I bought some patch repair tools from Eastwood like you mentioned to help save time doing the bodywork on my 70 Bus. I have yet to use it and I thought the adhesive they offered was rather expensive. I think I'm going to try a smaller creased area on my rear access hatch first due to its size (just happen to have a donor hatch that was perfect in that area). I was planning on trying a more flexible sealant/adhesive similar to whats used on aircraft seams. I'll get my neighbor to show me how to make a web site and I'll post what I tried and how it worked when completed.

Mac

70 Bus 75 Baja
Reply to
Mac

Thanks for advice. Some good stuff.

I have a cuple of questions...

What does "oilcan" mean in reference to patching?

Are you saying the body filler should be sealed BEFORE priming? If so, what should I use.

Thanks!

-- Christian

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Reply to
Christian M. Mericle

Oilcan - I used the term hoping you knew.... hmmmm.... How about this - a beer can - it's almost empty now and you squeeze it and it pops a big old dent, squeeze it the other way and the first dent pops back out again. On large patches that are not properly attached and supported, there is a tendncy for that phenomenon to occur.

Seal last thing before paint. If the vehicle is gonna have some time before it can be painted, it should have a seal coat. If for instance you're driving it with just primer, it absorbs water through the primer. The body filler is not sealed until it's got a seal coat over the primer. Achieve the level of smoothness you desire with the filler and primer. Seal with a good epoxy sealer. Paint. Enjoy.

I just came in from starting a major rust repair temporary fix on my bus. I ground away the flaky rusted stuff and ended up with a rather large hole. I cleaned up around the edges and glued a chunk of hardware cloth in place. Tomorrow after work I shall begin to fill with body filler. It will ultimately look far better than the big flaking rusting areas but will probably never be repaired.

My bus is a victim of Mt.Saint Helens 1980 eruption (25 year anniversary last week!) all the double body panels filled with ash. The ash is extremely abrasive and ground away any rust preventative in there. Once the bus moved from the dry side of the state to the wet side, the ash took on moisture and held it there until, little by little all those areas are rusting away. Sad. -BaH

Reply to
Busahaulic

Okay, I get what you mean now by oilcan.

Also, I'll be sure to get a good seal on the body filler so it doesn't start absorbing moisture.

Thanks!

-- Christian

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Christian M. Mericle

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