I'm removed my spring plates and the torsion bars rusted to them. I'm trying to free them up from the spring plates. I've ground the rust down to a point where I can now see the splines on both the spring plate and torsion bar. I've called upon the help of an old product known as Naval Jelly, which is helping to dissolve the rust. However, I still have not broken them free. Any other tips? What else can I do to shed this rust? Thanks.
-- Steve G
would heat help? Spray lube after heating out in a safe area with lots of fresh air. remember rubber and paint might catch on fire. :-)
later, dave Reminder........ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their shoes. Frieda Norris
I am not sure if anyone else will mention this, but the coating on the rear torsion springs ,................ is very important. If you have that much rust, I hope you plan on replacing the springs entirely, using new or well preserved ones.................if they rust it not only weakens the springiness, it can cause fractures that will leave you in a bigger mess. I suggest making the purchase now, over later.
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Dave, I agree with the heat application, but only because the springs need replacement. If the springs are that badly rusted they are not worth re-using, I'd say. If they were to be used, I'd say stay away from heating and cooling the springs more than a typical drive would do.................this process will damage the Spring in a couple of ways also.
1) possible internal stresses may cause fractures that are very small and cause future damage/breakage. 2)The heat will likely damage the protective coating that was put on them to avoid the elements causing rust..............likely causing similar nasty things. once again , I suggest that the springs be repl;aced, as they are VERY important to the suspension and safety of the car, and are not worth overlooking at this point. It might be wise to replace the spring plate that is attached to the torsion spring as well. I can see it causing problems with a new torsion spring if not properly cleaned and treated.
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Water displacement, formula #40. Cause 39 was CRAP! :-)
Let me just make clear that its only the ends of the torsion bars (or springs as you guys are calling them) that are rusted. The rest of the bar looks in very good condition, with only a few little dabs of rust here and there. The splines are very well preserved on the inside. In fact, the orange paint covering the shaft is in excellent condition. The only part that is rusted is the end that was smack dab up against the spring plate covers. The spring plates are also rusted, but only in this location as well. The spring plates at some point were sanded and repainted as the black paint is definitely not original. I just don't think anyone ever opened them up to adjust the suspension like I am. I would not bother if these parts were rusted throughout. The integrity looks like its definitely there, except for the very ends, where there is about 1/8" of rust.
I was told not to heat the springs as they were hardened for certain torsion rates. Heating up relieves this designed-in stress and ruins them. Have you guys heard of this?
Just have to wonder how you can even see the end or the torsion rod. On my 69' anyway, they are well within the end cap (where the splines are) Maybe not all years are the same. Try PB penetrating oil and fill that sucker up - let it sit for a day or so. I would have to agree with others comments on integrity on the bar and plate. If the splines of the bar are truly "rusted" to the splines of the plate, that cannot make for a solid marriage in the future. But, you are there and we are here - draw your own conclusions. Might be a good time to buy a pair of those adjustable spring plates.
early beetles poke through the endof the spring plate. this is common for them to rust to the spring plate.i did use heat on the torsion bar but planned on replacing them with sway away's. the heat seemed to be the only way of seperating the two and a big hammer. before heat try lots of penetrating oil and let it sit for a day then oil again do this for a couple of days and see if you are able to bang them apart afterwards
russ
Congrats on the removal. :-) It is easier than when they break up inside of the torsion bar housing. yuck!!
IIRC I seem to remember that on the early Porsches you are supposed to remove, inspect, repair if necessary, regrease and reinstall the torsion bars periodically. VWs Type X should be similar!
To repair "surface rust", remove all rust by possibly sanding and chemical methods, degrease, repaint (possibly a certain type of paint), regrease them and reinstall them. Of course if the rust is too severe, then replace! It does not take much rust to damage them. :-( REPAINTING is what they need for protection. Also you must install them carefully without scratching them!! I wonder if POR-15 would be good to use on them. hmmmm
later, dave Reminder........ Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their shoes. Frieda Norris
Steve,..............Lemme re-state this...............ANY RUST is BAD.
Rust is a funny character. It does this "creeping" and such inside the metal and under the surface,................If you have rust spots anywhere on your torsion springs they are suspect for future catastrophe.....................Not necessarily soon, but not necessarily a long time form now either. In Airframe School, I learned a lot of things about metals and stresses and can't remember enough to give a great deal of knowledge on all subjects related. However in some of the classes They had some specific examples of what kinds of things can and do happen under the surface. Deep enough you could not see them with a magnifiying glass, and not visible at all from the surface.You could have the springs magnafluxed, and checked real good for peace of mind though. If there's any internal issues, they will show up just like a crankshaft with internal stress cracks or failures.Cheaper to know before re-installing them.
No rust is good rust.
I'm going to bet that a PO did the damage by repainting the spring plates,.................and didn;t properly prepare the mating surfaces before assembly, as suggested by your next sentence. maybe not to adjust , but to clean and paint.
This is true. All springs are susceptible to damage when heated................in one way or another, and your example is plenty good for the most popular kind of failure.
I'm not trying to spoil the parrty, Steve, Just trying to give good solid input....................If they are good to you, then by all means use 'em.
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Steve, They don look so good to me.
Where do you live?, and What year/model car?
I have a set that are like new compared to those.
Might make a good deal for ya.
( my earlier posts were not a ploy to sell either,..............I can see the accusations coming.).............LOL
Remove "YOURPANTIES" to reply MUADIB®
PHHHT! What rust!?!? :-)
On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:02:35 -0400, "Steve Gift" , who was sitting in a corner eating his Xmas pie stuck in his thumb and pulled out a plum and began to run off at the mouth like so:
-- Travis (Shaggie) '63 VW Camo Baja...
It all depends on your budget. If you build a racing or off road car, you should replace them. If you are repairing your stock daily driver, you should probably keep them. In the second case, I would clean all the rust with a wire pad on a drill and then I would shooth the axle with sand paper. Then coat it with plenty of grease before reinstallation to protect it from the rust. The torsion axles should be marked. It is very important to install them in the same side as they were before.
The spring plates seem in a worse condition. The surfaces that are in contact with the rubbers should be smooth, otherwise the rubbers will deteriorate quickly.
Bill, '67 bug.
Yeah, that is my question. What is going to happen if these fail, say the torsion bars snap after hitting a big bump on the highway. I'm correct in saying that the backend is just going to fall down on that side and be riding on the bumper stop until I can pull over and/or limp it home, right? This is on a fiberglass buggy that will be Sunday driven highway only, and babied about as much as you can. It probably won't be driven over 55 mph.
I will clean the rust up real good, and maybe coat the bars with a coat or two of Rustoleum or Krylon to protect them. I also got new urethane bushings for the front and back of the spring plate. I'll try to make those spring plates as smooth as possible before installing those. Do you use talcum powder on urethane, or can you grease those?
-- Steve G
It looks like surface rust on the fillet/taper part of the shaft. There's a lot of metal there. Clean off all the rust and primer or paint it.
I don't remember mine having any rust.
The torsion bars don't seem to me in a very bad condition, I wouldn't be affraid of them braking, at least not in city or highway driving. The spring plates are in much worse condition and it is a good oportunity to replace them. They will wear the bushings quickly, and you will have alignment problems. If a torsion bar brakes, the suspension would bottom down from that side as you said. If your tires don't rub on the fenders, you will be able to drive carefully home.
Bill, '67 bug.
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