On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 (jjs) scribbled this interesting note:
Oh I understand all that, but what is the relevance to the original poster's question? Moreover, what does he think will be accomplished by spreading his propaganda in this forum?
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
There was an interesting article in the Cincy Enquirer today entitled "Factory Jobs Aren't Coming Back" It talks about a couple who used to work at the local Huffy Bike plant in a small Ohio town until Wal Mart forced the plant to lower their costs so much that they had to move the plant overseas where there are lower wages, in order to be competitive with Big Wally. The ironic thing is that the lady and here husband had to take lower paying jobs, and have to now shop at The Wal (who put them out of a job) because their prices are the lowest. Here is the link to the article.
I remember back in the 70's my dad was a teacher in the Cincinnati Public Schools that went on strike. My dad did not strike and suffered the wrath of the union members. You would think that college educated teachers in a professional respected position would be a little different, but this was not the case with the Cincinnati Public Schools.
When leaving the parking lot these other educators threatened to get my dads car. At the time he ate lunch with a couple of other teacher that we will call Mr. Fritsch and Mr Dapper because that is their real names. They had a storage room that they at lunch in. After the strike was over, one of the chairs was missing, and my dad was no longer welcome to eat lunch with them.
Bill Berckman
67 Beetle Pictures at
The question was, "why do Snap-On tools cost so much more than Craftsman". I'm not now, nor have I ever been a member of a Union. But most of my family is... Down to the point they would not shop in a non-union shop, nor drink non-union beer.
Mike.
So, where are Craftsman and Snap-on tools union made?
Hell of a predicament for a Irishman. You are reduced to drinking rice beer. How ironic.
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 17:47:05 GMT, Michael Kelly scribbled this interesting note:
Ok, it begins to become somewhat clearer.
My mistake in labeling your statement propaganda. But, if you'll re-read what I wrote I neither confirmed nor denied your status as a union or non-union member...
Now I don't know specifically if Snap-On or Craftsman tools are made in the US by Union shops or overseas in Non-union shops, but if I had to guess I'd agree with your unstated implication that Craftsman tools are most likely made in Taiwan or mainland China these days and Snap-On tools stand a better chance of being made in the US. But, you realize that if that is the case that Snap-On tools also stand a better chance of being made with US steel, which I'm given to understand is usually of a higher quality than the stuff found in Asia. That too could help in understanding why Snap-On tools give better performance and help justify some of the additional cost. (This is, of course, sheer speculation on my part!:~)
BTW, I have never bought a brand new Snap-On tool. All their merchandise that is in my tool box has come from garage sales, estate sales, swap meets, and eBay. Used. The only items I've ever broken from Snap-On are a set of small pick tools. They broke because I really needed to be using a larger set of pick tools, but alas those were all I had.
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
We should find out if that is really true. I find it hard to believe that our ore is magically better than what can be found elsewhere on this planet. It would warm my heart to see the Minnesota iron range become healthy again. Magic ore? Sure, let's spread the word.
At one time, all the steel products that came from Japan were of USA steel. We dug the ore, smelted it, alloyed it, stocked it and they sold it back to us in cars, motorcycles, tools. The same is true of their oil products. We supply almost all of it via the Alaskan pipeline. (Do Americans really believe that all that oil is for us?.) In a strange way, what we get is what we sell them cheap and then we pay dearly buying it back in trade for their labor and to some extent, their innovative means.
The huge flaw in the capitalist system is the misunderstanding by Americans that they own capitalism. Capitalism is it's own servant. It has no boundaries. It goes where resources are most easily exploited. See Walmart, Target, and other Chinese industries.
I have a dream - I buy Snap-On tools by the scrap pound price. :) Craftsman tools are about there already. (zing!)
Here from the snap-on site:
Craftsman used to be non-union. That changed some time ago.
Hey! we'll have none of that talk. I'm not the one drinking only Union beer (Olympia) that was my maternal grandfather (A German). I only drink full bodied beers. My favorite this week is Dechutes Brewery's Obsidian Stout, the darkest stuff they have at Yeagers Tap house in Folsom, next to GUINNESS®. If I don't have time to brew them myself, I drink Red Horse Ale. };=8p my cow smiley with tongue sticking out.
No, it's that the Chinese and Taiwanese scrap dealers have no moral qualms about using scrap steel to make steel products with.
Rob J wrote in news:bqq6vk$h4i$ snipped-for-privacy@pixie.nscp.aoltw.net:
My Craftsman timing light has worked great for over 20 years. Methinks I bought it to tune up the Rabbit, so that would be since 1981. If they still make them like they used to, go for it.
It's not that using scrap steel is an immoral decision, the end user can either decide to purchase or not purchase items made from scrap. Scrap metals have more impurities because the source is not controlled, refined metals are of more consistant character. I keep a set of really cheap chinese tools in my car, and will only cry $40 worth if they get pinched. My $200+ Craftsman set is in my garage, and not as exposed to theft. If I had a $5000+ Snap-On tool collection, I would be paranoid of loss, and my tools would become my master.
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003, Michael Kelly scribbled this interesting note:
That was how I understood the whole idea as well. You just put it better than I would have!:~)
Nah. If you had thousands of dollars of Snap-On, Matco, and Mac tools in your Billion dollar tool chest you would be making even more money with them and they would pay for themselves in a very short period of time.
In my business we could (and have for a very short period of time, and then only because it was needed instantly) use cheap, disposable Stanley-Bostich pancake style air compressors. You know the ones. They are yellow and black and Home Despot used to carry them (don't know if they still do.) Of course we wear those out in a month or so since when we're working they see pretty much constant usage, all day, every day. Or we could buy Thomas pancake style air compressors that cost two or three times what the S-B cost initially. After about 12,000 hours of usage they get rebuilt. Cost for rebuilding? About $100 (this fee has been pretty consistent for over a decade.) And then they are good for another 12,000 hours or so of use. You do the math. Which is the wiser expenditure? (BTW, 12,000 hours equals almost 6 years of eight hour a day, five days a week, 52 weeks a year of use!:~)
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
Of course, But cars and other mechanical things for me are... Well not really a hobby, but I'm too damn cheap to pay for mechanical work when I can do it myself. If I were in business, I sure would have Snap-On or Matco tools.
Back on topic, I see that Harbor Freight has a timing light for $9.99.
Mike.
...................I have one of these handy little timing lights:
...............The inductive spark lead sensor is very easy to hook-up. The two D cell batteries last almost forever. The size allows me to place it up close to the pulley for better illumination in even the brightest sun light. It fits easily into the glove compartment of my bug where I can't misplace it and no one can 'borrow' it like what happened to my fancy $90 Actron with the chrome plating, pos & ground leads that get tangled up and in the way and useless advance dial that I never used anyway because I have a Berg pulley with all of the degree marks etched on it.
John, And Anyone else who cares, I read not too many years ago something about the steel can be virtually the same in all areas of the world. However there are trace elements of ultra minute amounts that will change the properties of a given alloy....................such as a "one part per million, trace of manganese" or the like, that can actuall have huge bearing on the product.
The Product properties can vary according to those trace elements in many ways. Some will have a better resistance to rust, some will have a better tensile strength, some will be much harder and will surface harden better..........................all that from those tiny bits of something that might otherwise be considered negligible.
I am sure someone else can substantiate the concept with fact. But A short search got me a bunch of discussions similar to the one here.
Certain processes will create a better metal for a particular application also. Such as the Firing and folding of metals in ancient ( and not so ancient ) oriental practices , to make swords that are superior to most they encountered..................hardness that is created by the fire itself by introducing high carbon out of the burning media,..........................
I know, I know,.............this is all useless. I just thought John Brought up one of those cool points that is worth discussion, and will enlighten some who have no clue about what makes metal stronger or faster................
I'll stop the babbling now.
Remove "YOURPANTIES" to reply MUADIB®
Yeah, obviously you are not a mechanic and don't know anything about tools. Craftsman timing lights are made in Japan and China. Snap-on timing ligh ts are made in Kenosha Wisconsin. If you want I can continue.
Yeah, obviously you are not a mechanic and don't know anything about tools. Craftsman timing lights are made in Japan and China. Snap-on timing lights are made in Kenosha Wisconsin. If you want I can continue.
Before you make such condescending remarks about someone else's knowledge, perhaps you should check your own. Snap-on offers three timing lights, one made in Korea, the other two made in China as per their website.
Wow... ULTIMATE thread resurrection! 10 years, 2 months and a 1 week since the original post/replies ;-)
A good old fashioned one from an old mans yard sale is usually going mean y ou're getting pretty good quality for cheapish :-)
Good comment, I feel the same way when I reach for the super shiny slick sn ap-on wrench with grease slippery hands and can't seem to get a grasp on it to use it. I'd rather 'ten to one' have a set of craftsman wrenches.
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