240 Question

I'd assume for $12 it was low mileage and loaded, ummm? I broker specialty cars for people on the side, want a Ferrari of a specific vintage? I'll find it for you, I also auction off cars (mostly Italian of origin) on Ebay. Someone requests a 245 with Black leather and white exterior with sunroof, how hard can that be to find? Like someone would get picky trying to find an 11 year old car.

What qualifies you as a 240 expert other than you've owned a few?

considered a pollutant by the Environmental Protection Agency, which regulates auto pollution. But those worried about global warming say CO{-2} is a culprit and should be regulated via tougher CAFE rules."

Yeah....... but when you increase the concentration of CO2 and can't regulate it naturally (trees,etc.), then we've got a problem.

I'd buy a small car anyday. Mind you, I've got a professional race license and know how to avoid getting into an accident, although anything "can" happen.

I do love my Volvo, but I'd feel equally as safe driving a Toyota Echo hatchback.

Not everyone can afford to buy a brand new safe BIG car, and can't afford the fuel, nor the insurance (more expensive car, more expensive insurance regardless off accident injury payouts)

An entry level S60 is about $40,000 Canadian, a Toyota Echo base is $12,999 Canadian. That is one hell of a gap, and the S40 isn't all that much cheaper.

The best way to survive an accident is never to get into one, which = a safe to drive car (good handling, good braking, emergency handling, visibility etc.)

Um, first off I own both a 240 and Saab 900, two of the safest cars in _actual_ accident data, ever. Neither one is over 3200 pounds (and they're only that heavy both being Turbos loaded with power everything). Bigger does not equal safer, heavier does not equal safer, more fuel efficient _definitely_ does not equal safer.

Have you ever heard of this little place called... the rest of the world? Amazingly enough little cars manage to be very safe in Europe, Asia and any other place where they are not in danger of being run over by distracted morons in 6000# jacked up SUVs. The safety problem is the trucks and SUVs which do not comply with car bumper height requirements. The auto makers are taking advantage of loopholes meant for

*commercial* vehicles [See Subaru making their cars into "trucks" by jacking them up, avoiding CAFE restrictions and actually making the vehicles *less safe*] The problem is not CAFE, the problem is "Soccer Moms" driving vehicles classified as "non-passenger" vehicles.

Sorry, but you have a *gross* misunderstanding of Physics. Take an egg. Put it in a big metal box. Drop it from 12". Notice mess inside. Take an foam or paper egg carton, repeat. Notice lack of broken egg. The issue is *energy absorbtion* not mass. Crumple zones (energy absorbion), side intrusion protection (energy absorbtion), seat belts (energy absorbtion) and air bags (energy absorbtion) make vehicles safer. It is far, far, far easier to design for impacts from particular locations [see Standard Bumper Height point above] than random impacts. The Geo safety does not depend on its weight it depends on its *design*

If CAFE is "forcing" smaller cars would you care to explain to me why the Mercedes V8 S Class can beat almost all of the SUVs and minivans (according to

heck, even the 600hp Twin-turbo V12 Maybach 62 beats quite a few of the Trucks and SUVs and it weighs over 6000lbs! There are many ways to improve mileage without effecting safety, weight is only one part. There are many ways to make vehicles safer (to the occupants and other vehicles) weight is again only one part of the equation. The *real* issue is that cheap cars are just that... cheap, and as has been proven time and time again safety doesn't sell in the US. GM has made Air Conditioning and Automatic Transmissions *standard* features on their cars, but passenger side air bags and Antilock brakes are extra cost options. In Germany the Ford Focus comes *standard* with electronic skid protection, good luck finding it in the US.

As has been said many, many times the business of auto manufacturers is

*making money*. If it is profitable [and legal] to make unsafe vehicles, they will do so (see the cost analysis on antisway bars on Corvairs or changing the fuel tank design on Pintos for two famous/infamous examples). The answer is not less regulation, but more. Odd that Sweden and Germany have some of the safest vehicles in the world, isn't it? The reason is not that they are larger or gas hogs, the reason is that they have to be to met domestic regulations.

Bill

Bill -- your entire post was written eloquently and clearly. The reasons you cite above are precisely why I consider the 850/S70 to be safer than the 240 that they replaced (notwithstanding that you have a 240).

I see them getting more like 8-9k, but the problem is *finding* one in really pristine condition, generally if they're in excellent shape, they're not for sale. I can see the value of really nice late model 240's continuing to rise for a bit as fewer and fewer of them are around.

All things aside, the 240 is still a very safe car, insurance companies love one, and I'm sure I'll always own one. They're not the only good car out there but they're the car for me.

240 doors already have rather heavy reinforcement bars in them, what's the difference in the newer ones?

regulate it naturally

It's the drunk that takes the off ramp as an on ramp that gets 'em. :o/

accident injury

safe to drive car

Well, I'm outta here, I thought an auto group would be fun, but there's too many jerks in here to bother sticking around. Sad really, I thought that alt.autos.volvo would be a place where Volvo fans could get together and have fun. Thanks to those of you that are nice though! :)

A manual 240 gets about 28 mpg, that's not so bad is it? It may be only

115hp but it does well with what power it has IMO.

So what? Is it not what comes out of the tailpipe that's important? There's so much beurocratic BS involved in such things, some states even have visual inspections under the hood. It's hard to argue though that the actual emissions are the important part, and 240's tend to do quite well.

Screw airbags, they're more trouble than they're worth, yes law requires them for some reason, but doesn't seem to require the car itself to be solidly built. Bottom line is serious injuries are relatively rare in 240's and other Volvos of the age, haven't come across an insurance agent yet who didn't recommend them for new drivers.

This can be an issue, can't say I've ever had much problem with them, but then the climate is relatively mild here.

So what? It's a utilitarian car, turn up the radio.

Yeah, but so is anything high quality.

The 700's are excellent cars as well, more refined and luxurious, but more complex with more to go wrong than a 240. I like them both but for different reasons. I have mixed feelings on the white block motors, they're good compared to many other motors on the market, but they're not quite as bulletproof or as easy to work on as the red blocks. 240, 740 or 780 with the turbo inline 6 would be a dream though.

They easily could have altered the doors and sides. They already were stronger than most cars their size.

$20,000 in 1990 translates to roughly $25K today.

The problem, though, is that the S40 was not the same indestructable deal that the 240 was. The new S40 - why not just get a Mazda 3 series instead and save a huge amount of money?(sigh)

DICTATED to love

continued on

Morgan still makes their old cars as well, wood frame and all.

The new Lexus Pseudo-SUV hybrid coming out next year is the first real attempt to have both a larger vehicle and good emissions and economy.

The tests are against a barrier and at MOST, a car of simmilar virtually nonexistant mass.

Put it up against a Buick Regal or Camry, both of which are pretty mainstream "midsize" cars - and watch it crumple like a tin can.

Actually it does. I put a new cat in mine and it got 17ppm for HC and NOx was 2. It passes the most stringent tests if it is in excellent condition, like most cars.

I know of several of 1970's era cars that pollute under 50ppm because they are in proper condition. Of course, this often requires a good stock engine with stock equipment on it. You increase HP and add mods to it, it's going to burn a lot more fuel per mile.

So, in other words, you don't know any, either.

Say, are you Dale Earnhardt? Oh, no -- that's right -- he's dead. I wonder how that happened? I mean, he had a professional race license. Hmm...

Actually, I've mentioned it several times. And I'm not sure why you keep trying to foist off a penis on me, but keep it for yourself. Sounds like you need all you can get.

Well, the obvious question is, what qualfies you? So far you haven't said anything factual or even close to correct about them. The next question, then, would have to be, when did I say I was a 240 expert?

Amen.