should 240 turbo run w/o delay valve

Did someone perhaps fiddle with the fuel mixture adjustment screw in an attempt to compensate for the bad delay valve and/or vacuum lines? It's very sensitive.

Maybe, I bumped up the idle speed a tad, but the car was running decent when I bought it and it has been driven for 1000 miles with no problems. I have been rooting out a lot of electrical problems, maybe it's a bad wire from the temp sensor, would that cause a no start? Is the coolant temperature sensor only for the constant idel system on the CI injection.

Also, would a catalyst go from kind of plugged to causing a no start quickly, or is it gradual?

Thanks, I'm learning a lot in a hurry...

Well, following up to my own message, I have some answers, but more questions... I'm not getting fuel. I pulled the fuel pump and hooked it to 12V and it pumps fine. I jumpered across the relay and the pump works, but it does not work normally. I feel the relay clicking while I crank the engine. The engine doesn't run with the relay jumpered, either, but maybe that's something else.

I am suspecting that one of the systems connected to the relay (air control and something else) may be at fault, rather than the relay. Are there some common things to look for in the CI fuel injection? The wires are in rough shape under the hood, i'm wondering if that is the problem. I need to spend some quality time with my wire diagrams, but someone has something to get me started, I'm a little lost on my new car right now.

There is a sensor whose name escapes me this moment (I'm at work so I don't have the details in front of me) that is hidden under the rubber cowl that caps the airbox. It isn't normally visible until you unscrew the the compression ring that holds this rubber cover on (where the vacuum hoses all start). I was unable to get my 83 240 Turbo started for several hours because the wire running to this sensor was shorting. The wire should run along the leftmost edge of the engine compartment back toward the cabin and across and back down to a small plug just below the ECM. On my car the plug was orange and just dangling on the end of the wire (not a socket on another part or anything) and had a metal clip that was to keep everything securely connected. This sensor is the one that emits a short and mild buzz as you turn the key to pre-ignition before starting. This part may be unique to the Turbo set-up.`

I sprayed the connection and the sensor with wd-40 (to get out the water) and wrapped the bare part in electrical tape and all was well again.

It's some sort of "jetronic airflow sensor" or something. If you have a Haynes it's actually in there with a cryptic cross-section diagram of the Bosch airbox.

Hope this helps. Where are you located? It would be great to be able to swap notes on another 83 240 Turbo.

Regards, blurp

On 3 Nov 2003 11:00:06 -0800, the illustrious snipped-for-privacy@frontiernet.net (John Roden) favored us with the following prose:

Do you have a spark? There's a wire from the coil, that when disconnected will prevent the fuel pump from running, how's the underhood wiring in general? These harnesses are known to deteriorate.

Well, it will almost run, until I let the key off so it is getting a spark. I'm still waiting on my delay valve, so maybe that's the problem. I managed to forget which way is up on that valve, so I hope the dealer will be able to advise when i get it. I have the CI injection and there is a plug under the large rubber plenum that connects to the air filer box and it is not getting power. The wires are green and brown, I think this may be a real problem as this is the thing that opens to allow gas to flow and is also connected to the fuel pump relay, maybe? I have the bentley, but I'm a bit of a novice at this.

My wiring harness from the grey connector on the drivers side down under the intake is absolutly shot, all bare wires. I am thinking this will need to be dealt with before anything else and have ordered a new one today.

I have not checked the function of the pump in the gas tank.

I wish I could just get the darn thing running enough to get it into the garage.

Thanks for the ideas, I will try them now.

The part I mentioned in my previous posting is called the Frequency Valve (at least that's what they called it in Haynes). You also describe it in your follow-up:

It should get power and emit a short mild buzz at pre-ignition.

That's the bit I was talking about. If it isn't powered you won't start. Mine was actually stuck on for a while and then wouldn't get any power at all due to a short.

Good luck, blurp

On 4 Nov 2003 10:21:10 -0800, the illustrious snipped-for-privacy@frontiernet.net (John Roden) favored us with the following prose:

That's the frequency valve, it connects to the Lambda Sond control box that's mounted in the right side footwell area, this system consists of that valve, the control box, the oxygen sensor, and temperature sensor and it regulates the fuel mixture. If the frequency valve isn't connected the engine won't start, you could re tune the mixture so it will run with that disconnected but it likely won't pass emissions, is the harness that connects to the frequency valve dangling under the car or stuffed back under something?

There's a big power resistor in series with the coil that is switched out of the circuit by the starter motor. If I remember correctly it's located on one of the strut towers. Usually the resistor doesn't go bad, but it can, but more common are the connections to it.

I do have a large white resistor (I think) on the left side firewall that gets quite hot, I was wondering what that was for.

I went out today and bypassed the little silver relay (it looked rusty, so maybe i need a new one of those also) on the left fenderwall and powered up the frequency valve (it buzzed) and jumpered fuses 5 and 7 to send fuel up there. Still is not catching. I'm starting to wonder about my original question and if the lack of the delay valve is preventing that round device under the intake manifold from opening and allowing enough air in.

So, I guess I need to sit and wait for my delay valve and wire harness to arrive. Thanks for the tips, I have learned a lot about my new car.

The only delay valve should be a grey and black one between the thermal vacuum switch and the bottom side of the control pressure regulator. It works to provide enrichment before the engine is warmed up. If it is connected or not has little effect on start up. The other device you mentioned is the idle control motor (IAC valve). It won't stop the motor from starting unless one of the hoses is disconnected, creating an enormous vacuum leak.

If the cam is turning the fuel pumps should run on their own while cranking the motor, also, the frequency valve will buzz.

It sounds as if either the cam isn't turning or there is no current going to the coil when the key is in the run position. Jump the fuses as you have done before and run another jumper from the battery to the ballast resistor on the fire wall. The dash lights should illuminate and the car should start when cranked. If it doesn't, it may be flooded, the timing belt may be broken, the frequency valve may be defective or the frequency valve relay may be bad or have a bad connection at the plug, or a huge vacuum leak, or ...

Bob

The delay valve, like the frequency valve only tweak the fuel mixture. The car should run (but not well) with the frequency valve disconnected, the car should get fuel (but may not start) with the delay valve.

I would first want to know where the last part is that's actually getting fuel.

As far as moving the car, just leave the car in gear (if it's a stick) and run the starter to get it moved a bit. Even if you do burn out the starter, they're cheap to replace (and not that difficult if you've got a big enough hammer).

- alex

'85 244 Turbo

If anyone is still following this most boring thread of all time, I finally did get the thing started by wiggling the rotten wires enough for it to barf to life and clump into the garage. Now the manifold and wire harness are out and I'm just waiting on the UPS man. Hopefully I will be able to figure out where all the wires go, my notes are pretty greasy.

The wires inside the sheth looked like crumbled cake, I can't believe the car even ran.