Just curious, If I cleaned my throttle body and reassembled it without changing the manifold gasket, what would the symptoms be, if the old gasket isn't holding its seal?
To be fair, the engine performance changed after I cleaned the throttle body. I didn't change the gasket and would like to see if what happened matches up with what is expected to happen.
I cleaned the throttle body, and replaced the throttle body gasket on my 1988 Vovlo 740 GLE recently. Lumpy idle was cured (car "hunts" for an idle rpm).
If the throttle body gasket is bad, you might have idle problems, because there is a vacuum present in the throttle body, and an electronic switch monitoring the vacuum in order to regulate idle. You should be able to tell by looking at the gasket. If there are voids or tears, it is bad. Price is only a few dollars, or you can cut your own from gasket material available at most auto parts stores.
Its a good idea to do the gasket when you remove the throttle body, since you are in there anyway...
Thanks for the reply. I am kind of hinting at a pop-quiz to hear what people's answers are, then match that up to my case.
Sort of like: "If a person removes and cleans the throttle body on a 1987 740 GLE, B230F engine, and reinstalls the throttle body without changing the gasket, the result of a leaking gasket will most probably be":
A) A rough, erratic idle B) A lower idle speed C) A higher idle speed D) Car stall and die E) No change
My result is one of the above. Which should it be?
A) A rough, erratic idle
...assuming everything else is fine. Which means you have new spark plugs, new rotor, new distrubution cap, new wires, all electrical is good, engine compression is good, fuel filter isn't clogged, gas is fresh, there is no water in the gas, the air filter is clean...
My answer was C - fast idle.
Now we're getting somewhere. My idle shot up from around 1200rpm in park to about 2000rpm.
It drops to about 900-1000 when I shift to drive. I thought maybe air was getting sucked in and the engine is getting too much air and running faster and hotter.
This leak is past the throttle body, so I didn't think it would have the choking effect of a vacuum leak as much as it would appear to have the effect of added air fanning the fire of combustion.
I'm getting a new gasket tomorrow.
Maybe, if the throttle plate had been set correctly originally but was being held open by gum deposits and not allowing the throttle switch to close.
Maybe, if the gasket had been damaged or the nuts left loose on reassembly or the wires to the throttle switch left unplugged,
Not likely, unless the inlet hose to the idle air control valve were left off the bellows hose.
Generally the gasket replacement or non-replacement has no effect. SOP would be to replace the gasket. But given the number of operations where the throttle housing is removed to gain access to other things smd it doesn't get replaced I'd have to say no change is the most common result. Also the most common on cars with regular throttle and pcv service.
It depends on what it was doing before. One would remove it to clean it either as PM or to correct one of the other options given as answers by resetting a cleaned part to factory spec.
With the motor warm and the idle air control valve plugged and the nipple to the belows hose plugged the motor should barely idle at around 400-450rpm if the throttle plate is set correctly. Restoring the IAC to the system with bring the idle up to 850. Even with the throttle plate full shut the IAC will generally achieve an 850rpm idle. However if the the throttle plate is set too far open, say 950 rpm, and the throttle switch is reset to click in that position, then the idle air control valve cannot reduce the idle to 850rpm even if the control unit commands it full shut. Alternatively if the throttle switch contacts are open when the throttle plate is shut, the IAC will be commanded to open to an off idle position (around 20% open) and the motor will idle about 1500rpm. The same thing occurs when the throttle switch is left unplugged. The control unit can see neither idle position or full throttle so the IAC is again commanded to the open throttle position and idle goes high.
Bob, I think we're on to something here.
Ever since I found my distributor was not seated correctly and was causing my severe loss of power, the repair I made to it restored full power, but now it idles at around 1200-1500 rpm in park and then around 900-1000rpm in drive with the brakes applied.
I've attempted turning the black idle knob all the way to the right, and it doesn't drop it under 1500.
runs vertical from the throttle body to the throttle lever (with the 2 nuts). I have this set so that I can hear the "click" and it engages the idle. If I turn it past the "click" it goes into fast idle.
Are you suggesting I inspect the throttle plate to make sure it is in the proper position?
I am guessing the throttle plate is the black device with the connector wire on the throttle body? I briefly read over this procedure, but didn't fully understand how to make the adjustment so I left it alone. There was something about loosening the 2 nuts with an allen wrench (or hex-head, I can't recall), and there was also another nut to loosen that I didn't understand.
Do I understand correctly that this throttle plate could be out of adjustment, and even though I get the "click", it may be clicking at the wrong RPMs?
Please advise. Also, I still don't see how cleaning the TB would have run the idle up higher if the gasket is sealed.
If the gasket is leaking, then unmetered air will be getting into the engine and it will run poorly.
I've had reasonable luck reusing the gasket though so long as it didn't rip.
Considering the age of your car I would also have a close look at the vacuum hoses off the Throttle Body. Best to make sure they are not leaking, cracked, and fitting properly with correct tubing and all spring clamps in place. Maybe somebody has changed things over the years or worse yet hasn't done anything at all.
I put my IAC back on today and in the process noticed that one of the two small vacuum hoses off the top of the throttle body was loose. Not only that, the spring clamps were missing. It took the hose of and discovered that it had been replaced, not original Volvo either. Someone had put on a piece of 3/16th inch. Should really be 5/32nd or a bit smaller as the 3/16th was pretty sloppy on the nipple. What looks good may not be quite as it appears.
No question, my car seeks and finds idle quite nicely after cleaning IAC. Still have rough idle on cold start so next step is this little ditty below and if that doesn't work it's new distributor cap, rotor button, fuel filter and wires (going for the Bougicord wires, sounds like they are worth the money)
Poor Cold Idle: B230F/T ECU E-Prom Needs Update. [Query] My wife's 95 945T (90k miles) starts fine on a cold (below 40F) start, but idles like crap for 20 to 30 seconds. If I hold my foot on the gas and keep it at 1500 rpm for 8 to 10 seconds, its fine. Car idles nicely when warm, and runs like a dream. When I pull the plugs, they look great. I've replaced ECT and other parts and cleaned the TB. [Response: Abe Crombie] Go to a dealer and have them look at Volvo Service Bulletin 28-102 "modified e-prom for cold start with low rvp fuel". This says the symptoms are: car starts and then immediately dies and requires re-start. Runs rough for the first 45 seconds and may hesitate on acceleration. Recent EPA regulations have necessitated changes in the formulations of gasolines (i.e. "oxygenated fuels"). The result of these reformulations has been a decrease in the relative vapor pressures (volatilities) of these fuels, which seems to be particularly problematic for cold starts/idling. The updated eprom chip to be installed in the ECU is the fix to make it have correct fuel mixture computations for cold start. You must have the number from your ECU in order to cross-reference the correct eprom update kit P/N. The change procedure described in 28-102 requires careful attention to static discharge.
I would think that most anybody would agree that an extra Throttle Body gasket or two should be sandwiched in the old glove box in amongst the insurance papers.
Remember, don't be spraying silicone around intake anywhere if you might have leaks, goofs up the oxygen sensor. (and they are not cheap)
OK, I found this on brickboard and it matches my issue. I am going to replace the gasket today, remove and blast the knurled black idle knob, then follow this example:
//Poor Idle; TB Cleaned; Now Idle is Too High. [Query:] Well my problem is certainly gone. It now idles at 1600 rpm, but that's a steady 1600. Did I do something wrong, or was the crud in the throttle body masking another problem? [Response: Evan] Nope, the crud WAS the problem. Crud makes the car idle lousy and slow. Lazy mechanics simply dial up the idle to mask the problem, rather than fixing it. You just need to dial the idle back to spec. On the end of the butterfly shaft, the end where the spring is, there's a stamped metal plate. It has a 'leg' bent down that rests against the idle stop screw. The screw is held in place with a lock nut. loosen the nut and adjust the screw. [See Throttle Body and Throttle Position Switch Adjustment for more detail on 89+ cars and Adjustment of Pre-89 TB, TPS and Base Idle: for pre-89] Be careful, the screw head has a tendency to strip out. In retrospect, you should have taken a minute to make sure the screw was free while the TB was on the bench. Another thought: Before you do any of the above, make sure that the 'leg' on the stamped metal plate actually touches the stop screw at idle. Some REALLY lazy mechanics just adjust the throttle cable length at the big obvious pulley, rather than adjust the stop screw//
1) Throttle body was dirty -- I cleaned it. 2) I reset the idle screw 3) I replaced the gasket 4) I removed and cleaned the IAC
Here's the kicker!
I installed the IAC with the arrow facing in the PROPER direction (toward the intake). When the mechanic installed the engine, he had the IAC backwards.
So, I have a nice idle at about 950rpms. I tried to use the black screw to come down to 750-850, but no luck.
Still better than 2000 and it sounds so much more relaxed.