15,000 mile service??

No. That's it. Today's cars are designed with better designs, materials and things like larger oil capacity along with synthetic oil and better filters.

The 1.8T and VR6 do have an extra oil change at 15k miles that the 2.0 litre does not...you can take it in , but they wanted to charge me for the extra oil change, so I just did my own at home. 10k miles seems like a bit too long between oil changes; I don't think my dealer uses synthetic oil. I'm about at 30 k miles on my golf, and plan to start using Amsoil synthetic (like I did about the same mileage for my '86 GTI). Not sure but I may then go to 10k miles between changes (not sure if I'll install bypass oil filter to allow for extended oil change interval or not).

Without proper filtration you should change the oil at least every

3,000 miles. Decent filters haven't been standard equipment since the 50's on American cars. Probably about the same for European cars. Full flow filters can't clean oil but they are a lot cheaper to put on new cars than the more effective bypass filters. A good engine has very few abrasives large enough to be filtered out by the full flow filter. Do your research before purchasing a bypass filter. Some are not submicronic and have too expensive an element to be practical. My oldest filter still in use in a Motor Guard over 30 years old and has saved me thousands of dollars. Always remember that the better the filter and the smaller the filter the more often it must be changed to get as near zero wear as possible. Unless something drastic happens like a leaky head gasket you should not need to drain the oil. I gave up dirty oil and oil changes 40 years ago.

Ralph

Funny, I have not changed oil every 3,000 miles since my 1970 VW Bug (which had over 180,000 on it and was still in good condition when I sold it and did not even have a "filter" only a screen) and yet I have had four cars, no engine problems on any, and all but one had over 150,000 miles on them when I sold them, all with no engine problems. So I guess all my engines should have fallen apart?

The fact is the filter systems work well. Sure some systems will work "better" but they are just over kill.

I am sure someone could design a knife fork and spoon that would be better than what we have and cost $1,000 per place setting, but do we need it?

Thought you all would be interested in this article.

European vehicles are designed to use higher quality European lubricants, often posing problems for American owners.

Many popular North American engine oils may actually be harmful to European engines. European automobile manufacturers design vehicles to use specific high quality lubri­cants with specific properties and additives. Most motor oils offered in America do not meet the demanding specifications, and the European lubricants are not readily available. As a result, problems such as premature wear and engine sludge develop.

"Europeans build their cars and impose higher requirements on the type of oil than we are used to here in North America," remarks an oil industry source. "They have more of a multi-tier system within their specifications, whereas the API uses the lowest common denominator as a guideline. It is by its own admission, within API 1509, a minimum spec."

While the American Petroleum Institute (API) sets oil standards in America, the Automotive Manufacturers Association (ACEA) sets them in Europe. "ACEA standards reflect a wider complexity of the offering of engines on the market right now," says Ilerve Blanquart, VP Automotive of Motul North America. "On top of that, manufactur­ers have introduced their own standards, most of which start with the ACEA standards, and go further in specific tests to solve specific problems and address specific issues."

In the U.S., the API adopts one standard for all engine oils. "For example they are work­ing on ILSAC GF-4, and the problems they are running into is that this oil will be too thin for a lot of older engines," explains Blanquart. "In Europe, they decided from the beginning that they would not adopt a lin­ear standard - rather a standard for each type of application -- gas, diesel, turbo, etc."

European vehicle manufacturers keep tight control over which lubricants they allow to be used in their vehicles. Inner-company bureaucracies are in charge of keeping the approved lubricant lists up-to-date with the latest requirements, and a few companies apply some of the regulations to North America. European aftermarket service stations must stock different lubricants for different automobile brands. Sometimes different models put out by the same manufacturer require different lubricants.

Do-it-yourselfers are less prevalent in Europe. Qualified repair shops, franchised or tightly controlled by the vehicle manufacturers in order to dictate the type of oil being used, typically perform most of the oil changes.

The high quality oils used in Europe allow Europeans to enjoy longer drain intervals. However, when European vehicles are exported to the United States, the concept becomes distorted.

"There is in general a longer drain associ­ated with the higher tier oils in the European system," remarks the oil industry source. "So the thought process is - if we don't allow the longer drain in North America, consumers should be able to get by with APl spec oils - but it leaves manu- facturers open to the type of problems Mercedes-Benz recently experienced."

A recent class?action lawsuit brought forward by owners of certain

1998 through 2001 Mercedes-Benz vehicles claimed they weren't informed that synthetic motor oil was required in order to take advantage of the extended drain intervals afforded through the use of the vehicles' Flexible Service System (FSS). Many using conventional oils experienced pre­mature wear problems, and the settlement cost the company over $32 million.

"The long drain indicator used by Mercedes is predicated on using Mercedes-Benz-approved oil, which is a very top quality synthetic oil," explains the oil company source. "When those vehicles came to the States, somehow dealerships weren't impressing upon the consumer the need to use the right oil. And whether or not the dealers were doing so, some consumers were putting in regu­lar API spec oil, resulting in problems."

Although synthetic motor oils are general­ly of higher quality than conventional oils, not all synthetics can meet the stringent European specifications. "A good quality synthetic could solve the problem," says the source, "but in the case of Mercedes-Benz, for example, you're dealing with an extreme­ly high-spec oil. Not every synthetic is going to meet that spec. Some only meet the baseline API specs. Just because it's a synthetic doesn't mean it's a top tier product.

"Shop owners must keep in mind that there are numerous special requirements for European vehicles and that they shouldn't always be knee-jerking to the stuff in the big tank. If you call Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, or VW, for example, they should be telling you that their vehicle needs ACEA spec products."

I can't say about everything you wrote about, but I do have a couple of comments.

First those "European engines" you talk about are in a lot of US cars. A high percentage of those engines end up in the US. Do you really think the manufacturers don't know that and don't take that into account? They are not that dumb.

Second: "In Europe, they decided from the > beginning that they would not adopt a lin­ear standard - rather a standard for each type of application -- gas, diesel, turbo, etc."

Which is true in the US as well.

"Do you really think the manufacturers don't know that and don't take that into account? They are not that dumb." I don't think it has to so with their intelligence, however things do get overlooked. For instance, Mercedes-Benz forgot to take into account that in the United States their are oils sold to the public that simply don't perform up to the standards of the typical lubricants sold in Europe. They didn't include specific language with regard to using synthetic oil in their owner's manuals and it caused them a class action suit here in the united states. ____________________________________________________________________________

American owners of Mercedes-Benz cars were awarded a $32 million settlement this month on a complaint that their engines may have sustained early wear because they were not advised to use synthetic motor oil. The class action settlement, approved April 9 by a U.S. District Court judge in Philadelphia, calls for Mercedes-Benz USA to mail vouchers for a free oil change to more than 350,000 owners and lessees of cars from the 1998 through 2001 model years. In addition, the company commits to cover repairs estimated to cost $20 million. The case involved a Flexible Service System (FSS), included on nearly all Mercedes-Benz cars sold in the United States from 1998 to 2001. The system is designed to help owners lower maintenance costs and to reduce environmental impacts of used motor oil by advising owners when the oil truly needs to be changed. According to Mercedes-Benz, the system begins with a minimum interval of 10,000 miles and adjusts upward as it detects favorable conditions, such as extended highway travel.

Documentation brought forth during the case indicated that intervals ranged up to 20,000 miles, with the average being 12,000 miles. The problem, according to the plaintiffs, was that owners manuals and promotional materials advised motorists to use conventional motor oils. "The company's intentions ? to save its customers money and to protect the environment ? are certainly commendable," attorney Kenneth Jacobsen told Lube Report. "But it didn't work because conventional oils just don't stand up to those intervals." Mercedes-Benz mailed a letter to owners in 2001 advising them to use synthetic motor oils. Ironically, it was that letter that eventually led the original plaintiff, Joseph A. O'Keefe, to file suit. "He had worked for years in the automotive business, so he thought it was strange when he received this letter from out of the blue recommending that he switch from conventional oil," Jacobsen said. "He wrote to Mercedes to find out what was going on and received what he considered to be an unsatisfactory answer." Jacobsen added that the automaker did not dispute during the case that the intervals recommended by the FSS were too long for conventional oils. "It was never really an issue," he said. "They pretty much acknowledged that they had a problem. Their argument was that it wasn't as big of a problem as what we said and that the case did not merit a class-action suit." After the settlement, Mercedes-Benz issued a statement denying wrongdoing and maintaining that conventional API SH and SJ motor oils should withstand the intervals recommended by the FSS without sludging or related engine damage. The statement did not address other aspects of engine oil performance, such as fuel economy preservation or protection of emissions controls. It also noted that the vehicles were factory-filled with oil that "met the same standard as approved synthetic oils." Mercedes-Benz USA Public Relations Manager Frederick R. Heiler acknowledged that the intervals for which the FSS was programmed significantly exceed those typically recommended for conventional oils. He noted, however, that typical intervals are "blind" recommendations ? that is, made for cases in which neither oil nor driving conditions are monitored. "A system that monitors oil condition and the amount of highway driving can often prescribe much longer change intervals," Heiler said. The FSS does not directly monitor oil condition. The vouchers to be mailed by Mercedes-Benz will pay for installation of synthetic oils. With their face value of $35, that part of the settlement has a price tag of $12.3 million. Judge Franklin S. Van Antwerpen arrived at $20 million for potential repairs based on expert testimony. His decision approving the settlement cited allegations that several thousand owners had reported problems by the time O'Keefe filed his suit.

I got a call from a guy with a Frantz oil cleaner on his old super Beetle. He told me his engine finally gave out with well over 300,000 miles on it. My guess is he only changed the filter every couple of thousand miles and added a quart of oil. Motor Guard and Frantz are both very effective filters, the oil never gets dirty. Filters that clean oil are mostly for people that keep their equipment a long time. When I met my wife she had a 66 Beetle that she was changing the oil in every 1500 miles. It had about 100,000 miles on it and had swallowed a valve and ruined the head and one piston. I put a Motor Guard on it. After she drove it a few hours it had about 1/2 teaspoon of metal in the bottom of the filter. An engine can't handle that for very long. We drove it another 65,000 miles. It still ran good. There are people that won't trade in a good car. I shouldn't have traded it in.

Ralph

ok. where do I buy one?

I have heard that our bypass oil filtration systems were inspired by the Frantz filters. Not sure how accurate this is. They seem to share the qualiities low micron/depth type filtration.

Regards,

David