16V timing belt question

Just swapped in a 2.0L 16V in place of the old 1.8L 16V. I replaced a lot of parts on in 2.0 before it went in since it was a used engine from a Passat and not a rebuild. Head gasket, seals, water pump, timing belt etc were all replaced. I'm wondering if I installed the timing belt off by one tooth. The engine starts and idles good although very roughly. It idles evenly at about

900rpm. It had no power when I drove it and the CAT got red hot like it timing was severely retarded or over fuelled. I couldn't find any intake or vacuum leaks. The injection is OEM 1.8L 16V ie. fuel dist., injectors and intake manifolds.

Any help appreciated. Rick

Reply to
Rick
Loading thread data ...

and what is wrong with checking the timing of the timing belt again hmmm? :-) Possibly the camshaft timing is retarded???

Sounds like a lot of raw gas is getting into the cat. conv. possibly. Did you adjust the CO? Make sure the cold start valve is not running constantly too.

later, dave (One out of many daves)

Reply to
dave AKA vwdoc1

Reply to
Rick

Reply to
Rick

Check your firing order. Sounds like the #2 and #3 wire are switched.

Reply to
Dave in Columbus

You can also use the timing mark (tdc) on the fly wheel. Did you check the ign. timing?

SFC

"Rick" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@rogers.com...

Reply to
SFC

Reply to
Rick

Does that engine use a vacuum advance and/or retard? Or even a mechanical one? I'm recalling an incident with my old air-cooled beetle where something went odd with one of them (can't recall which) and it would idle pretty good, and even rev up to a degree, but it could hardly haul itself out of the driveway.

- Bill

Reply to
William J. Leary Jr.

Well if the cold start valve is mechanically stuck open (leaking), then unplugging it electrically won't shut it off. You might have to remove it from the intake and test it properly with the fuel pump running.

You don't have to pull both timing cover sections off to check the timing belt. I only pull the upper cover off. Then I usually pull the #1 spark plug to insure that #1 piston is at TDC and then I inspect the camshaft timing. I usually put some visible paint on the flywheel and camshaft sprocket and use a timing light after the engine is running. Nothing like checking the engine running with an adjustable timing light! lol Make sure that you turn the tensioner of the timing belt clockwise to tighten. I think that might make a slight difference. It shouldn't but...........

Examine and test the fuel injectors

Other possibilities OTTOMH: RUNNING RICH Coolant Temperature Sensor for the fuel injection. Oxygen sensor wiring shorting out. Exhaust could be clogged. Injectors partially clogged with a bad spray pattern. Weak spark or bad spark plugs. Problem with the fuel distributor. Fuel pressure regulator not getting current.

Sounds like fun! ;-) Just be careful! later, dave (One out of many daves)

Reply to
dave AKA vwdoc1

Reply to
Rick

Just let us know what you find!!!

Reply to
dave AKA vwdoc1

Reply to
Rick

Rick ( snipped-for-privacy@rogers.com) wrote: : Well, I checked the timing belt and it "seems" to be out 1 tooth. : Here's where I get confused: I lined up the timing mark on the flywheel with : the casting arrow on the tranny housing but when I check the mark on the : vibration damper with the arrow on the lower cover it the mark is about 3/4 : cm to the left of the arrow. The flywheel and the vibration damper are : attached to the crank so how can they be out? From what I remember, the : damper fits via a keyway with no room for error. What am I missing? : All of the above was checked with #1 piston at top of travel, rotor pointing : to #1 spark plug and cam pulley mark lined up with arrow on valve cover. : HELP

I am not that familiar with VW, as we have only owned one for the past 11 months and my expertise is 90% with British cars of the 1950 to 1970 range BUT

The flywheel is, in almost all engines, precisely located by dowel pins.

The "front" pulley / vibration damper, on the other hand, is located (as you describe) located with a 'key'. A key that is a tiny bit thin or keyways that are a bit worn - possibly from the center bolt not being adequately tightened at some time, or even a bit off spec in the manufacturing - can allow a bit of slack. This slack is greatly amplified by the distance to the rim of the wheel and could explain the (estimated)

7 mm offset at the rim as you describe. Again, not being familiar with the engine, I would doubt that the timing belt is the problem - mainly because you say that the cam pulley (tooth belt sprocket?) lines up with the proper mark. I would be more in favor of the thought that the distributor drive might be a tooth off where it picks up its drive (from the camshaft?), except that you say that the rotor is pointing at #1. (How exact is this? Is the magnetic 'lobe' below the rotor pointing almost exactly at the magnetic pickup, or is it offset two or three degrees?)

As a side comment to an earlier suggestion, a four cylinder engine will usually run with one 'dead' cylinder but crossed plug wires would mean two dead and, while it is possible that it might start up, it would be extremely unusual for it to work anywhere near as well as you describe.

Ben F.

1984 VW Westfalia

ps. The next time I post here, I will probably be looking for some specific VW expertise - which I do not have.

Reply to
Ben Fullerton

Reply to
Rick

Rick ( snipped-for-privacy@rogers.com) wrote: : I don't think the distributor is "out" since it can only fit in in 2 ways. : The other way would be 180 degrees out and definitely not start the engine.

The common, but not universal, connecting of the distributor *shaft to the camshaft is by a 'blade' on the end of the distributor shaft. If the gear is not part of the distributor shaft, then the dist. shaft *blade fits into an extension shaft which has gear teeth which engage with a gear on the camshaft. In many cases, *that gear is free to be lifted far enough to disengage and then possibly move a tooth or more in either direction.

Not only that, the very common construction is such that the distributor

*body* can be rotated for the purpose of setting the timing. It would be an extremely unusual engine design that did not allow for this.

If you just engage the distributor shaft with no heed to the exact rotation of the body before clamping it, there is a very good chance that the timing is off.

[Some of this may not apply to VW - just talking basic principles.]

: It is possibly not timed exactly but this is minor compared with the problem : I am now having.

I disagree. I have seen many instances where incorrect ignition timing caused exactly the sort of symptoms you describe.

: I might take the drive sprocket off and replace it with : another one I have laying around and see if it makes a difference.

Making sure that the ignition timing is exactly on spec first would be a very easy thing to do - and just *might make the bigger job unnecessary.

: I'm really not sure where to look but I have to try something! : Thanks for the input, : Rick

==============================

: > I am not that familiar with VW, as we have only owned one for the past 11 : > months and my expertise is 90% with British cars of the 1950 to 1970 range : > BUT : >

: > The flywheel is, in almost all engines, precisely located by dowel pins. : >

: > The "front" pulley / vibration damper, on the other hand, is located (as : > you describe) located with a 'key'. A key that is a tiny bit thin or : > keyways that are a bit worn - possibly from the center bolt not being : > adequately tightened at some time, or even a bit off spec in the : > manufacturing - can allow a bit of slack. This slack is greatly amplified : > by the distance to the rim of the wheel and could explain the (estimated) : > 7 mm offset at the rim as you describe. : > Again, not being familiar with the engine, I would doubt that the timing : > belt is the problem - mainly because you say that the cam pulley (tooth : > belt sprocket?) lines up with the proper mark. : >

: > I would be more in favor of the thought that the distributor drive might : > be a tooth off where it picks up its drive (from the camshaft?), except : > that you say that the rotor is pointing at #1. (How exact is this? Is the : > magnetic 'lobe' below the rotor pointing almost exactly at the magnetic : > pickup, or is it offset two or three degrees?) : >

: > As a side comment to an earlier suggestion, a four cylinder engine will : > usually run with one 'dead' cylinder but crossed plug wires would mean two : > dead and, while it is possible that it might start up, it would be : > extremely unusual for it to work anywhere near as well as you describe. : >

: > Ben F. : > 1984 VW Westfalia : >

: > ps. The next time I post here, I will probably be looking for some : > specific VW expertise - which I do not have.

Reply to
Ben Fullerton

Reply to
Rick

So if the belt is/was off by one tooth, did you correct it? Did you get your power back now? I don't pay much attention to the crank pulley marks, I usually deal with the #1 piston and the flywheel/driveplate.

BTW The distributor should only fit one way into the cylinder head. The feet of the distributor drive should be offset.

formatting link

Reply to
One out of many daves

Reply to
Rick

Reply to
Rick

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.