My friend's 1992 GTI (8v, AT) wouldn't start the other day. The battery seemed fine (lights work, stereo works). In trying to start, the engine made no noise -- no solenoid, no starter. Later my friend called a tow truck and got a jump start, and the car started without problem.
My interpretation of this is that it's a coincidence -- if the battery were low, then we'd hear the starter 'try' to turn the engine over, but instead we got no starter action whatsoever (nor solenoid).
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says that the starter motor, starter interlock relay, and ECM are common sources of trouble on this car. It seems to me that the relay or the starter motor going bad are more consistent with the symptoms observed. Comments? If it happens again, I'll take a voltmeter to the starter and that should differentiate between a bad starter motor and other, upstream problems (interlock, etc).
It may be a weak battery which can be determined with a multi-meter. One other thing may be the switch that tells the system that the car is in park. With the AT cars it won't let you start the car in anything other than park. Over the years the switch may get dirty or worn and will start to act up intermittently. If it does it again try moving the shifter through the gate a few times and see if it starts.
If it's US-spec, then yes, it does have the damned seatbelt interlock. To elaborate on the seatbelt interlock, it involves a switch in the receiver where the driver's shoulder belt buckles to the door. If the car detects that the driver's shoulder belt is not buckled, it won't start. If the car has been around for a while, it may tend to be wrong about this; many A2 owners choose to short the wires together so that the switch is always closed and this is a non-issue. One way to confirm this as the problem, IIRC, is to use your jumper cables to provide 12v directly from the battery to the starter, with the ignition in "run"; if this works when turning the key to "start" doesn't, then the car isn't engaging the starter (most likely because it thinks the belt isn't attached).
If you don't have power windows, it's pretty easy to find the wires going to the switch and splice them before they get in the door; I don't have the colors handy, but there are only four wires on a non-power-window door (speaker +/- and belt switch +/-). If you splice the belt switch wires together, the car will think the belt is always plugged in and may start more readily. Safety and legal implications may matter, so make sure you consider them adequately; my understanding is that the belt-must-be-plugged-in functionality meets the federal passive restraint requirement, so overriding it might mean that your vehicle no longer qualifies as having passive restraints.
Another issue to consider with an automatic is heat soak; AT A2's are notorious for that, although I'd expect to hear some response from the starter if heat soak was the problem. My brother's Golf had a recurring problem in this way in that it would start fine if it was cold, but he couldn't shut it off for less than an hour and expect it to start again; I believe the fix for this is heat shielding and better wiring to the solenoid, but searching the archives (Jan's page as well as Google groups) would probably provide more info.
I dont believe there is such a thing as an AT A2 GTI in the US. I dont think there was one anywhere, but Europe had so many models it wasnt even funny.
Wouldn't I hear something from the starter? The battery definitely wasn't totally dead, as lights+stereo functioned fine, and the lights weren't dim at all.
The US (and Canadian?) 8V GTIs had an automatic option from 1990-1992. It's in the '90 brochure and when I was buying my '91 (5-speed) the dealer had an identical automatic one on the lot.
Sounds like a weak battery-you added a jump start which gave it enough juice down to the starter to turn over the engine.
A battery may have 12.2V just sitting there but as soon as you put a load on it(trying to start engine), voltage can drop down low enough to not even make starter turn. Happens all of the time.
You either have a weak battery, left a light on over night, or your alternator is not keeping the battery fully charged.
The symptoms sound right -- both times when the car didn't start, it was warm from sustained driving. Today I drove for about an hour and it was completely fine while driving. Parked for about 10 minutes, and then it wouldn't start. No noise at all, except the fuel pump. I waited about 10 minutes more, and then it started without any problem. I shut it off and tried starting again, and again it started without any problem.
||On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Kevin 'Sparty' Broderick wrote: || ||> Another issue to consider with an automatic is heat soak; AT A2's are ||> notorious for that, although I'd expect to hear some response from the ||> starter if heat soak was the problem. My brother's Golf had a recurring ||> problem in this way in that it would start fine if it was cold, but he ||> couldn't shut it off for less than an hour and expect it to start again; || ||What is "heat soak"? || ||The symptoms sound right -- both times when the car didn't start, it was ||warm from sustained driving. Today I drove for about an hour and it was ||completely fine while driving. Parked for about 10 minutes, and then it ||wouldn't start. No noise at all, except the fuel pump. I waited about 10 ||minutes more, and then it started without any problem. I shut it off and ||tried starting again, and again it started without any problem.
"Heat Soak" is when you stop the engine. Heat transfer through the cooling system effictively stops, so all the latent heat from the block and heads flows to everything conned in an attempt to normalize. This heats the starter motor and everything else to a higher temp than when it's running.
The hard start is attributed to separated connections in a hot starter or solenoid, that reconnect when cooler. A new starter may fix it. With no noise at all, I'd suspect the solenoid.
After replacing the electrical harness from my transmission I had hoped the transmission problems would be fixed, but the following fault still pops up periodically.
Any idea what component is at fault ?
VAG-COM Version: Release 404.0-US
Control Module Part Number: 096 927 731 M Component and/or Version: DIGIMAT 0811 Software Coding: Diagnose VW Work Shop Code:
1 Faults Found:
00652 - Gear Monitoring 27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
I would probably suspect the grounding wiring for the transmission shifter harness. With the vag-com hooked up can you see what range the selector is in? Do you have the speedo with the ranges on there also?
Are all of the terminals clean and tight? Did you use some di-electric silicone grease too?
You could try checking the components and wiring from the TCM's harness plug. later, dave
No. It could be 12 volts with lights and stereo but go to nil if the starter is engaged.
I used to work with someone who had a PHD in physics and he never ceased to amaze me on how dysfunctional his practical abilities were. Lucky he was in management where he could do no harm.
Yes, everything was still working. I'm pretty confident it's the well-known "heat soak" problem (consistent with being a '92 automatic). The car reliably doesn't start when hot, but will then reliably start after 10-20 minutes.
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