I own a 1999 Jetta GLS with a VR6, new model. I love the car, but I had $3,000 worth of part replacements in the first 3.5 years (not including maintenance). My husband's CRX got stolen the other day, and a friend who is a sales manager at a dealer has a 2002 Jetta GLS with leather, Monsoon and sunroof, and only 15,000 miles he'll sell us for $13,400 including taxes, etc. This strikes us as a good deal, but we are not sure whether the Jettas have a better reputation now than the 1999 ones developed. Anyone know what if any improvements were made between 1999 and 2002? I assume they at least have better window clips (!).
Is it the 2.0L naturally aspirated engine, a TDI, or a 1.8T?
1.8T had coil issues - fixed now... Don't know when the VW's got their window regulators fixed, but it's not a problem anymore - if it is there's a
7 year warranty on them.
2.0L engines may consume a bit of oil, our 2003 Golf CL has reduced its consumption now that it is pretty much broken in.
TDI's have problems with their MAF sensors - I had to change mine in early
2003 (1999.5 model) - 7 year warranty on it now too.
Seems like with the used ones the previous owners fixed all the problems under warranty, I can see a lot of people not wanting to deal with it and selling it to get a new car - you mentioned you had a lot of parts done in
3.5 years - taking you to 2003ish if you bought it new... how has it been since then? My 1999.5 Golf GLS (basically the same car minus the leather and a real trunk) had some issues for the first 4 years - fixed by the previous owners, and probably the same stuff you had with your Jetta... I've put over
50K Kms of hard driving on it since March 2003 when I bought it and nothing has gone wrong (save the MAF which was broken when I bought the car - I knew it, but considering I got a great deal on the car it was worth it) - only regular maintenance... I think they've nailed the problems down on the earlier cars.
They seem to have fixed the major issues. I wouldn't buy the car if it's a
2.0L engine, personally - they are very unremarkable engines, unless you don't really care about performance and just need a decent driving car, the
The window clips are now made of metal, and there is a seven-year (?) warranty on the old clips. VW ironed out a lot of -- um, bugs -- in the three years since you bought your '99.5. I had a '99.5 Jetta that I traded for an '03 Wagon (really wanted a wagon) and found the '03 better in every respect (except price, of course). You don't mention which engine the '02 has, but if it was one of the more problematic ones, they've either replaced the bad parts or warranted them longer. I'd say a carefully-driven '02 is a better bet than a '99.5 from the standpoint of build quality.
One suggestion: if you can negotiate into the price a 20,000 mile service, you're better off. Depending on the dealership, it can be pricey.
Thanks both of you for the replies! It's interesting, last night I went to Edmunds site and read the consumer reviews on the 2002 model I am looking at. I saw so many people frustrated with the same problems as my 99.5 had that I concluded VW hadn't changed a thing - not even the window regulators. I guess there's some comfort in knowing the AF sensor and regulators are covered. The oil thing was new to me, because my 99.5 is a VR6, but the one we're looking at is a 2.0. People at Edmunds mentioned this oil problem and we take long trips, so I got extra wary of that engine. But if that gets better over time that's another story. How much better? I am used to not adding oil between oil changes. The 2.0 isn't as nice as the quieter, more powerful VR6, but I think it's enough for our purposes.
After all my 99.5 problems in the first 3-4 years, it's been pretty good, and I love it when all is well (albeit I've so far refused to pay $99 to replace the cup holder, and the glove compartment hangs by a thread when open, and the cloth strip has come off from above the passenger door, the door handle "plastic" is peeling all over the place ...). They did tell me last spring, however, that it needs a new catalytic converter for another $1500 including labor. I haven't decided whether to fix it after-market, 'cause if I have another problem with it later, VW won't talk to me if I haven't fixed it there.
Asking for the 20,000 mile checkup is a good idea, but since the sales manager is a friend (of sorts ... from the gym), he's already come down from $15,900 to $12,000 not including taxes, etc., and pretty much said it's the lowest he can go. Basically a brand new Jetta. The leather even smells new!
Even if problem parts are covered (to used car buyers too?), there's the headache factor and a rather long drive to the VW place, and since last night my husband got a curiosity about the new Mazda 3.
Thank you for all the feedback, I feel a little more like the Jetta's an option.
The 2002's may have had these issues, but they should be fixed under warranty by now... 2003 is probably when everything got ironed out completely.
I haven't seen plastic peal off the door handles like i've heard from so many people and i've been in at least 9 Mark 4 Golfs/Jetta's ranging from
99.5 with 100K Kms+ to brand new 2004's... I thought the door handles were a rubber actually?
Glove box door falling off? - No offense to you, but how come everyone keeps breaking these (i've heard of it before, not jus from you)? Our 2 VW's glovebox doors aren't breaking... the 3 VWs at my dads work that are company cars aren't breaking, my friends 3 VW's don't have any broken doors.
The 2.0L engine on some cars can burn oil, our dealer mechanic said it happens during the break in, if the rings don't seat correctly it will keep burning oil - 1L per oil change interval usually. Apparantly it's from people not following the break in procedure or something.... The old 2.0L engines in the A3's and the 1.8Ls in the A2's never had this problem tho.
Your cloth weatherstriping can probably be re-glued back in
No comment on the catalytic converter... $1500 seems like too much tho... And just because you get work done (your car is out of warranty anyways) by an outside shop doesn't mean the dealer can do anything to you... I get certain things done outside, and certain things done at the dealer, with no hard feelings from either side.
About the Mazda 3 - I test drove one, and thouroughly went over the car when my dad was considering a new small car to replace the 1991 Golf... And with me racking in 40K Kms this year on my 1999.5 I am considering a new car for myself.
Pro's of the Mazda were:
-More powerful engines
-Well equiped
-Interior quality was quite good
-Steering wheel mounted audio controls
-absolutely massive glovebox
-backseat with useable room
Cons where:
-140hp and 160hp really didn't feel like their numbers suggested... you need to revv these engines to get their full potential - the 115hp engine in the Golf seems more flexible, tho yes... it was slower
-Safety systems standard on Golf CL (absolute base model) not availible or optional on Mazda 3 top of the line model
-Seats are too narrow between bolsters (36" waist, 5' 11'' farily typical male frame here... not some giant or anything)
-Gauges are in deeply recessed tubes, RED illumination
-Styling that will go out of style fast... overstyled car, especially the hatchback version
-Radio did not sound as good as the Volkswagen system
-A feeling of cheapness
-A feeling of yah but this doesn't really improve upon anything I have in my car... except mine is 5 years old and this is a brand new design
You get a lot of bang for the buck, but overall I felt that Mazda took a Jetta, copied what they thought was good (the seat adjustments are a dead knock off... as are many other things... the dealer even told me that benchmarked VW/Audi/BMW small cars and "stole" ideas) and improved upon certain areas. There was no area's other then minor ones that I felt the Mazda did any better then the Jetta. I found the old Protege 5 was much more fun to toss around in Corners, I found my Golf could stop faster then the Mazda, my seats were far superior, as were my gauges... The Mazda was nice, and compared to a Golf CL... it's a better value... Compared to a Jetta it can be percieved as a better value if all you look at is figures... But there's more to a Jetta then what number suggest. I'd buy the VW 6 year old design over Mazda's 1 year old design for the pure fact that Mazda has really done nothing in the real of their own engineering - hell the Platform is mainly from Volvo.
They changed the design. I had an early production 99 Jetta (A4) and the door broke the first time in less than 3 months. It broke again a year later. The first time the part took AGES to arrive. (I was told it came from the factory in Mexico). The second time it was a stock item. My next car was an 01 Jetta, and it didn't have the problem.
In the original design the damping that makes the door open smoothly also offered resistance when you closed it. If you closed it quickly it put strain on the part, which would crack and eventually break off. I found cold weather made the situation worse.
Sometime between when my 99 was built and when my 01 was built they hanged it so it only offered resistance on the way down (opening) but NOT on the way up (closing) and the problem went away. I heard that they replaced a LOT of glovebox doors under warranty in the first year of the A4 models.
They probably are rubber. I wonder if heat is a problem. I live in the desert, and while I keep the car in a garage most of the time, even with a windshield protector the car gets very hot when you have to leave it in the sun during summer. I just now noticed a new thing - the surface "coat" of plastic/rubber/whateveritis that is just below the gear shift on the left (right of the driver's right leg) is bubbling off bigtime.
I don't recall what happened when mine broke. I think the door just fell open hard for some reason and the hinge snapped. So if you easily lower it down every time, this probably wouldn't happened. Or maybe I opened it from the driver's side and pulled slightly toward me at the same time. I don't really recall for sure, but either move might have done what happened.
Speaking of the 1.8, do you know if the sound level of it is more like the
2.0 (loud for me) or the VR6 (quieter).
Ya, just haven't wanted to pay to have it done right. The dealer quoted something high and I haven't been elsewhere for a while.
Good point. I'll probably go outside.
I really appreciate your impressions here too. We wonder if it strikes you as quiet or loud or the same as the VW 2.0L (or other VW engine).
It is almost for sure either PVC (vinyl) or TPO (Thermoplastic Olefin).
One of my clients is a big manufacturer of automotive interior materials. Most of their products are based on vinyl, but recently TPO has become more common, mostly because it is supposed to be a little "greener". Either one is usually coated with a top finish. I think it's the top finish that is peeling.
I think sunscreen is a major cause of this peeling.
Could be heat... I live in Southern Ontario - so a few +30°C degree days in the summer and that's all (sometimes almost +40-50° with lake effect humidity) - the cars do well in -30°C if you'd like to know :-)... Germany doesn't get exteme heat and they only test the car a few weeks in the desert to test the radiator, A/C and such - prolonged use in hot climates could affect plastics, as they are temperature sensitive.
My glove box has lost almost all of the dampened effect... But i'm gentle with it, so that's probably why it hasn't ripped off... I looked at it closely just 10 minutes ago and it's fairly flimsy... the one in my dad's
2003 Golf is better.
About the 1.8T noise... I just test drove a 1.8T Passat last week (thinking of getting a new car soon) and it was smoother, and more refined sounding than the 2.0L - of course the Passat has more noise insulation... the 2.0L is fairly quiet in the Golf tho, but it sounds like a diesel when you revv it - V6 engines are always quieter, they have more balance... The 1.8T seemed good tho.
The Mazda engine is quieter then the 2.0L unit... it's also a newer design,
4 valve per cylinder engine DOHC... vs old tech 2 Valve SOHC technology... It sounds almost electric, has a nice whine to it... tho it's a peaky motor - who runs their engine at 4500-6000rpm??? It's typically Japanese in that it is smooth and quiet, but it needs to be because you have to revv it up - the 2.0L is happy with short shifting.
If I was buying a Jetta i'd either get TDI or 1.8T, with the 5 speed manual transmission... If I was going automatic I would take TDI or the VR6... The
I've ridden in a stickshift 2.0 and it was pretty loud-ish. I've ridden also in a '02 1.8T with a 5-speed and a '03 1.8T with a Tiptronic. The
5-speed one seems noticeably quieter. I wonder if the automatic 4-bangers in general tend to be grouchier sounding? Seems to be the case with the
1.8T anyway. However none of the above sounds as smooth and quiet as the old 1.8 8V in my A2.
Thanks yet again for so much info. To all those following thread, we are near to buying this leather 2002 Jetta with 15,000 miles on it ($12,000 plus taxes and fees from a dealer!). CarFax is clean as a whistle, and a service check at the local VW dealer (only one in SE AZ) turned up only 3 visits less than 3 years: bought mudguards, rattle right front was door seals, and vibration in pedal and wheel on acceleration at 3000 rpm - dealer could not reproduce, nothing done. We do not feel this happening. We are about ready to jump in and hope this car does not have the oil problems, figuring if prior owner came in for those items, she would have come in for that. The oil problem would show in the first 15,000 miles I assume, if it usually calls for more oil every 1000 or so miles. Any additional thoughts? We might move somewhere much colder than the desert, so the rubber/plastic stuff shouldn't be a problem. I've read now 2 people say the Jetta is good in cold climates, and 2 said not, so I'm not sure what to think about that.
VW's have been more bullitproof then our Swedish built/tested Volvos in the winter... Not a bad cold weather car by any measure, but the old, technically complex Inline 6 in our 960 has some hard times when it's in the cold... stumbles really bad, whole car shakes... straightens itself out in
10 seconds or so tho, but sometimes needs two key cranks - our old 1.8 Golf could fire in one key crank in the WORST cold days while being left outside with no block heater - less then three turns of the engine is all she needed, hammering valves that sounded like a diesel be damned!... My TDI started on the coldest day of the year this past winter when my block heater tripped the GFCI outlet (damn salt water being conductive) sortly after its timer kicked in... -45°C with the wind chill, heater less engine glowed for about 25 seconds... barely had enough power to get out of the driveway... barely chugged down the road (didn't sputter tho... just blew lots of white smoke).... no cabin heat after 10+ minutes... temperature of the engine didn't break 1/3 even after 40 minutes..... And gasoline cars are BETTER then disels in the winter so don't worry about it.
Check the oil levels every 1000kms or so for the first while to see if it burns.
Every time you get gas, look at the dipstick - this is what I do with my TDI, even tho it doesn't burn oil... just got into the habit with the old
$1500 for a $300 part? Any good ehxuast shop will put in a better than OEM cat for you for easily more than a thousand less. I'd almost not consider buying a car if the dealer was gouging prices like this.
As for the car, a 2.0 without stick is such a letdown from a VR6.
Oh - you might also want to consider the various lease options. The local dealers won't tell you anytihng about them - but they are on the VW American site. $189 a month for a Jetta or $169 for a 4 door Golf. At those prices, you can afford to toss the car after
39 months and be ahead. Also, while under lease, the warranty is naturally in effect, so no $3500 in repairs you have to pay either.
I found the Scion Tc to be the most different than expected test drive. It out-everything'd a Celica and had 4 doors as well. Shockingly good driving car, in fact.
Second place went to the Sentra. Very nice engine and handling in the SPEC-V. No turbo, no premium fuel requirement, either. Mind you, this is for economy cars, the IS300 with a manual gearbox is by far the best small car I've driven since a Volvo 240 turbo.
Base engine Golf - not so much in the inspiration department
Too bad all the Sentra has good is a big motor - the interior didn't look good in the 1980's when most of those plastics look like they should have been last used - I do like the 8 way adjustable seat tho - nice touch.... It doesn't have enough buttons in it either - that's one thing I don't like about Japanese cars they seem to have most of the same features but they have a few very large buttons... I like to have an array of medium sized ones. And the radio's are too out of reach on Japanese cars, I like the radios high in the consol, but not far away. The Mazda 3 has a good placement.
We don't have the Scion brand in Canada (instead we get the Echo Hatchback.... YAY!!!) I thought the Tc was only a 2 door coupe? It's a nice looking ride tho.
After our second test drive on the 2002 Jetta with only 15,000 miles, we just couldn't do it. We're used to the VR6 and can't hang with the 2.0. We've looked at all kinds of cars. The Mazda3 is neat, but you have to pay extra for a lot of things standard on other cars. Also only gets 3 out of 5 from JD Powers for mechanical quality. I'm a stickler for that after so many problems with my 1999 Jetta. The Scion tC is the most interesting new thing on the market I think, and a better value than the Jettas, but I don't think the interior style is quite right for me. The tC is much different than the first 2 scions, and much higher quality than the Echo. Great fun drive, and appears to be very high quality for the price. If the interior were a little softer (just a little here and there) I'd buy it hands down. But for interior, I still feel most at home in a Jetta, while loving the VR6. The Hyundai Tiberon is very fast but too sporty for me. (Drove it more for my husband.) Much higher quality I think than the Accents and Elantras. Ford Focus - maybe the top of the line one, I didn't drive it. Couldn't cope one more minute with the clown who went on the test drive with the lower level trim.
SOOOO, I notice that JD Powers gave the 2004 Jetta 5 out of 5 for the first time among Jettas for mechanical quality. Used to be 3, then 4 in 2003, now
That gives me some confidence in going Jetta again, just probably can't get it used as I'd hoped in order to save money. How is the feedback on the
1.8 turbo which I might get instead of the VR6? Better mileage, and a little more horsepower than my older VR6.
I drove the IS300 and the first thing that I thoght was "European" when I drove it. It's the only Lexus I've ever driven that rides like a BMW.(not the big ugly ones but the smaller more nimble ones like the older 3 series)
Sure? What is wrong with 1.8T? The 1.8T (and various modifications of it ranging from 150Hp to 225Hp) here in europe is considered as one of the better ones overall.
And how 2.0T by volvo is better as 1.8T by VAG? No offence, but there in europe you hear a lot of horror stories particulary about the reliability of Volvo S40 2.0T.
The S40 is most probably not a proper volvo anyway. At least in europe Volvo S40 is a "sister car" of Mitsbishi Carisma and both are assembled in the same NedCar plant in Holland on the same production line, which unti 2001 was a joint Mitsubishi-Volvo-Holland government enterprise, but after 2001 does not belong to Volvo anymore, the Mitsubishi is the sole owner now. And sadly, the overall reliability of both S40 and Carisma is not anywhere near the usual "japan level". That's why Mitsubishi has such a huge problems now.
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