99.5 2.0 - Losing compression in 1st cylinder - kicking/bucking when driving

I have no idea the brand - the shop did it. I had them done on

4/17/07. Part #06A 905 409L. I also had the Fuel Pump Relay (1J0 906 383C) and Crank Sensor (06A 906 433C) done at the same time (I had a problem where the car would just suddenly die and I couldn't restart for a few hours - but after this fix it was good)
Reply to
Pete Foley
Loading thread data ...

Yup - that sounds like my Golf!

Well - maybe. That's why I'm going to a different shop soon - hopefully this week.

Reply to
Pete Foley

Oh - and also - not like the guys at AutoZone are VW heads - but the guy suggested trying ISO-HEET and Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant. I grabbed them (only 6$) but haven't put them in. He said maybe just a dirty fuel filter/line/etc. But I usually use Chevron Techtron about every 5000 miles...

Reply to
Pete Foley

And can anyone recommend a Good VW shop in the Philly area?

Reply to
Pete Foley

Pete Foley wrote in news:075cca3a-085e-4539-a6f8- snipped-for-privacy@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com:

My wife lived in Philly about 6 years ago, and had good luck at Burlington Volkswagen. Keep in mind this information is old. But the treated her right, and fixed it the first time, but it was along time ago. She figures if they are still they, they probably still don't suck :)

Reply to
TheDM

Not sure where Lost in Space is, but I would take my VW there if he is close.

Reply to
dave AKA vwdoc1

Heh - me too.

I'm toying with the idea of calling up the shop that I currently use (I've been using them for 5 years and this is the 1st thing they can't fix) and seeing if they will guarantee the head work - I'll only pay after I see that it fixed it - since they are so convinced that is the problem (I'm not after hearing what everyone says).

Still don't know if I should try to get this fixed or just get rid of it. Just saw a MK2 golf for 3000... Hmm..... :)

Reply to
Pete Foley

That may not be such a bad idea... Of course, after doing the head job they'll fix the (hopefully minor) problem, and *tell* you it was the head job that fixed it... (Like: "we replaced the wires because they didn't look good, but it was the head job that it needed..."

Humm, when you do that deal, you'd better be careful!

Reply to
PeterD

Just spoke w/ the mechanic - he said before he does the head work (he clarified and said it's the exhaust valve thats having the problems) he wants to be sure that the codes being thrown are correct. I told him my 2 new codes - and he's still concerned that there is something up with the CPU and it is throwing the incorrect codes - and possibly causing my main problems - that's why he reprogrammed it before (he tried to find a replacement last time I was in but couldn't find a used one). He equated the restart of the car to a computer reboot. That the head problems may be triggering the CPU - but then that's freaking out and doesn't know how to handle it.

He's trying to find a used one from a junkyard since a new one is too expensive. I mean I do appreciate the fact that he's really trying to figure out the problem - but it's like I'm the test subject each time I pick it up. It's been almost 2 months since this started, with me taking it in every other week...

Sigh.

Reply to
Pete Foley

Also - to add - I asked again about the fuel system and oil pump - and he said that if it was one of those it would be worse when I'm on the highway going fast - when the car is pumping more. And it's not - when on the highway I'll get a few stuttering fits - but it is really the worst when starting up from a stop - before it even shifts into

2nd gear. That's when it will start kicking and get stuck and just limp by at idle - sounds like voo-voo-voo - almost barking. (?).

When I feel it start stuttering - the first hesitation when acceling from a stop - I need to floor it then in order to save it. Some times it does (with quite a kick).

Reply to
Pete Foley

I'm in Western PA. Need a vacation then come-on over.

Reply to
Lost In Space/Woodchuck

Second opinion time!!!! Sorry but I vote you take it to another shop or to the dealer. I have just not seen any well taken care of engines on the VWs going bad, so I doubt if yours is bad. Yes I have seen some head gaskets go bad for some reason on earlier engines, but not the cylinder heads nor short blocks. But I guess anything is possible. ;-)

It seems like that current shop tried to find the problem by replacing about

5 different components and the problem was not solved. If they performed a compression test, maybe they should perform a leakdown test. Maybe that might tell them where the compression is leaking. Now if the engine is running rich and has carbon building up inside, then a piece of carbon can get dislodged when the spark plug is removed. This could keep a valve open while doing a compression test. Wild thought but possible. ;-)

I will either assume that you have over 100,000 miles on it or you bought the car used. I think the 1999s still had the 10 year 100,000 mile warranty on the powertrain.

JMHO, dave (One out of many daves)

Reply to
dave AKA vwdoc1

Pete Foley wrote in news:605b7647-da2a-45ad-93f6- snipped-for-privacy@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

150k for fuel pumps is my personal experience, but I've only owned A1 style cars, but I have owned 5 of them for over 20 years.
Reply to
TheDM

Pete Foley wrote in news:1644d193-2f1d-401a-b611- snipped-for-privacy@q21g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:

A bad ground wire would act like that, but I'm guessing, because I'm not there. I still don't trust your mechanic, I've gone from thinking he's ripping you off to he honestly is stumpped though.

Reply to
TheDM

"dave AKA vwdoc1" wrote in news:RXvnj.3179$ snipped-for-privacy@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com:

I'm with Dave. Second opinion time for sure. Rebooting? uh... it dosn't quite work that way. Want to reboot it, disconnect your battery for 15minutes, it's free...but it won't help.

Mechanics have a tendancy to make things harder than they are, they learn so much they forget the basics. It takes fuel, compression and spark to run. If no workee workee, one of those is brokee brokee. It isn't rocket science, sometimes engineers make it harder, but it's all detective work. Codes are generally wrong, they only show a symptom that the engine experiences, the engine sees a rich condition, but it's a plugged air filter. It sees a lean condition and your fuel filter is stuck, toyotas seem to think there is something wrong with the engine if you leave the gas cap off. Most of the engineers that design these systems have never changed their oil. Stick to the basics, spark plugs, fuel pressure, compression, and then read the codes to see what is really going on, that is the art of being a mechanic. The car is trying to tell you, in fact yours is screaming out! But it's a foreign language for us to figure out.

That is the main reason I drive A1's because they are easy to work on. But I would like to get a hold of the engineer that designed the A1 passenger side motor mount in a dark ally for about 5 hours to show him how much it hurts having your hands beat up that long, but that is another story :)

It's your call of course, it's your money. 5 years is a decent track record though, but I might be inclined if I trusted him to say something like;

"Look, I know your trying, and I know your stuck. But I can't afford more either way. Fix it as an educational lesson and call it even with what I've already paid you for, or fix it and charge me for what the problem is after you've found it, or recomend me someone?, I really can't afford all this."

If I were your mechanic, the first thing I would do is:

1.) Drive it.

2.) Check the Ground.

3.) Check the plugs, a sticking valve will cause one of the plugs color to be off.

4.) Obviously read the codes.

5.) Compression test.

6.) Fuel Pressure test.

7.) Leak down.
Reply to
TheDM

Pete Foley wrote in news:45819b21-6b63-4be3-adf2- snipped-for-privacy@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

It's also possible that one of these has failed again... and there is something causing it to fail.

Reply to
TheDM

Hmmm problem not fixed.............=............no charge! Problem fixed..................=................charge! What is wrong with getting your $$$$ back? At least that is how I feel!

Reply to
dave AKA vwdoc1

I feel the same - but at this point I've paid for the new parts in it and the labor to put them in. When this was 1/2 way thru (when I first had the speed sensor and then the new trottle) I said I wanted a refund (at that point about $600) but they got kinda pissy and said that they were still working on it and needed to fix the problem 1st, and then we could go back and put back it the old parts as needed. Plus they have been doing lots of work testing it and driving it (probably over 200miles at this point) and not charging me for that labor. I know that he's had the other guys in the shop drive it and test it too.

Once I had the camshaft sensor and the coil packs done and the CPU reprogrammed we (myself and the mechanic) were hoping that it would still be driveable even w/ the cyl1 issue. It was great for a week and a half - and then started up again (granted I don't drive that much). I could deal w/ a kick here and there for a year or so - but it's back to its non-drivable state.

So he's still hunting for a new (well, used) CPU before does the head work - he's going to call me next week. I guess if I get the head work (I'll make sure it's guaranteed 1st - He quoted me $1000-$1100 to do the head work) and that fixes it - we can start going backwards and putting back in my old parts and see if it is still OK - and then get refunded for those parts at least. But at this point I honestly think that if get the head work done and it is fixed I'd rather not start messing w/ it again. And I would hope that the other new parts would last the rest of the life of the car (just looking for 1-2 more year out of it at this point)

I'm calling another shop today. I'm going to have them check the grounds, run the Compression, fuel compression, and leak down tests and see what they find. I'll figure I'll tell them my story and I'm just looking for some other diagnosing at this point - obviously paying for the labor. About how many hours am I looking at for these three tests? The new shop I'm going to be taking it to has been recommended on the TDI forums and VWVortex (but so has the current shop I go to - so go figure).

Reply to
Pete Foley

I think the courts will agree that if it ain't fixed you don't have to pay. Not sure on this one though!! Oh and I think you get to test drive your car BEFORE you have to pay for it!

Just installing parts is not the best way to handle an unknown problem!!!!!!!!! Troubleshooting, testing, and figuring out what is wrong is part of the auto repair game/profession. . Yes there are probably minimum charges when trying to find the problem, but once found fixing it is relatively easy/straightforward. But when the "EXPERTS" give you a price to fix it then they need to be accurate. Yes they may have to sometimes give you an educated guess, but that is why they charge you professional prices and gamble that they are correct. I am just leary of that shop that changes multiple components to fix a problem but the problem is not fixed AND they want to keep charging you! That shop is in a "learning mode" where this problem will not be worth the time to fix it but they will make money on the NEXT car that experiences the same symptoms. You should not have to pay them to learn on your car! I won't say that VW Dealers are any better since their techs are only human too. I would expect that they are more familar with your VW systems and probably can accurately fix the problem.

I don't see the camshaft sensor causing the problem. Maybe the coil pack if it was really bad. How did that shop "reprogram" the CPM/CPU? BTW I don't see how that could have caused the problem either.

Let see you have paid for: THROTTLE BODY (unlikely) CAMSHAFT SENSOR (unlikely) ENGINE SPEED SENSOR (possibly) COILPACK (possibly) SPARK PLUGS (probably) SPARK PLUG WIRES (probably) (Correct me if I am wrong or missing parts changed)

I don't like guessing and buying another CPM/CPU sounds like a guess. Did they look at vacuum readings with the engine running?

Now I have seen ign switches cause similar problems that did not occur at the shop because the ign key was taken off of the heavy key ring. Do you have the switchblade key?

Yes a second opinion sounds good. Maybe they have handled a problem like yours or want the challenge. The bad part is working after someone else that did not solve the problem and possibly created new ones. :-( Take them all of those parts that other shop changed. Sometimes even new parts have defects and then they can cause more problems. ;-)

good luck and keep us informed!

Reply to
dave AKA vwdoc1

I actually did test drive many times before I cashed out (they did too). Before the last time I had all the new parts but my old throttle body (I did have the new one before but we switched it back). I drove it for 2 weeks and I got a little stutter here and there - so I told them to put the new throttle back in because when that was in it was a bit better. Then it was good for 2 more weeks - and now it's back to what is was like in November - even worse.

I agree - but at this point I paid because I thought I could live with just a small kick here and there (just gotta live for a year or so). But now we are back to square 1. And each time they did the work it would be great for a few weeks - and so I would think it would be good

- but then it would startup again. I'm only doing the head work if they guarantee it.

He basically said that he re-flashed the rom in it. He's saying that it always throws the code for the 1st cyl - but then usually some other random code that doesn't make sense. He wants to make sure what the cpu is reading and doing is not throwing us on a wild goose chase. He's trying to find one from a junkyard.

Thats right. I had the plugs+wires done in the spring of 07 w/ the crank sensor and fuel sensor for another problem.

No idea...

Yup - but I don't keep it on a keyring - just the key.

I'm going in next Thursday - so I'll update around then.

Also - while originally it would take a while for the car to act up - at this point it is giving me problems going around the block - after sitting cold all day. So it does not seem like it being warm is still needed for it to start acting up... if that is any help. It still seems to really kick up when going around curves or when accelerating from a stop. Just cruising along is usually pretty good - an occasional kick here or there.

Also it may just be me - but it seems that when starting from a stop - if I let it idle forward for a second, and then slowly/gently accel - it is better. If I jump too fast it could hesitating/kicking. But as soon as I feel that first hesitation I need to floor it in order to save it from going into it's kicking-no throttle-limping along-death spiral.

Thanks again guys,

-Pete

Reply to
Pete Foley

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.