Do the Japanese or Germans make better cars?

These reports are interesting, but should be considered carefully as to their meaning.

"... more than 38,000 German vehicle owners were asked how satisfied they were with their car or SUV and the service"

The results do not represent how good, or bad, the cars are, but it represents how well they meet their owners expectations. Not exactly the same thing. It may well be that the results also reflect quality, but that should not be assumed.

If you read the article, it states that german vehicle owners were asked...

I wonder what the response would be if you asked american vehicle owners the same question? In Vancouver, I can't help but notice that asians drive a disproportionate amount of german and swedish cars.... mmmm do they know something we don't? My guess it's a "grass is greener" mentality.

I quite agree.

I am quite dissapointed with Volkswagen and other German car makers. They may be really nice cars, ride really stiff and stable like most people who buy german cars prefer.

The dependability of VW has started to scare me, however. I'm saving up a large

down payment for a 2005 GTI (the new generation). I know its what I want in a car, but I'm scared that it may be plagued with problems. How can you ever know if you will have problems? I mean, I know people who actually have FORD cars that aren't crappy. That's nealry unheard of. So maybe there is hope for the GTI?

Andrew

Joseph Meehan wrote:

First rule of new car buying. Don't buy a car the first year after a redesign. You are just asking for it.

Look at consumer reports expected reliability for VW. Its dismal with the exception of the Passat.

If the cars weren't so much fun to drive, I doubt they would sell any better than Fiat or Pugot. If quality was as important as it is to the Japanese, im sure VWs would be just as reliable.

Andrew Mart> I quite agree.

Price?!?! It's easier to make a great car for $50,000 (i.e., German) than it is for $25,000 (i.e., Japanese). Moreover, it's easier to ignore minor quality problems in the $25,000 price range than it is in the $50,000 price range. In my mind, the survey is meaningless if they didn't vehicles in the same price range.

LK

I don't wanna get the last of the old design, and I can't wait longer to get the

2nd year of the new design.

Andrew

lc> First rule of new car buying. Don't buy a car the first year after a

What's a better car? Aside from size and cargo considerations: a) a car that is pleasant to drive b) a car that is reliable? c) a car that looks good? d) a car that is more affordable for the same features? e) all these answers are good.

The bug is that no car has "e" as an answer. The Legacy 2005 is a good step in this direction! Will it pass the "d"?

IMHO, european cars are stronger in "a", japanese cars are in "b", american cars try to be "d", and koreans are "d".

Every Volks owner that I know likes his car, but everyone also has a long list of troubles and repairs. The latest generations of Mercedes look very good. There's a dealer two blocks from my home. I see many new Mercedes being towed to the garage. German manufacturers don't admit that they make mistakes. The result is cars that exhibit the same trouble model after model. Remember the valve sleeves on the Rabbit? Oil consumption became a feature in a Volks. On Golfs, the manual said something like a quart of oil per 1000 miles was considered normal.

Honestly but I'd like to see a reliable car from one of the big three.

trebant is German

:)

Dependability

Don't worry, it won't be the first year since the new Golf is already available in Germany, the platform has already been used by the A3 and Touran, and the engines and transmissions for the most part have already been available in other models, as well.

- D.

To Harry Wilke,

Asians who are not Japanese are the only ones who do not like to buy Japanese cars. Chinese, buy German cars because they still did not like what the Japanese did to them in WW2. Koreans do not like the Japanese at all. Alot of Asian countries do not get along together. Just because they are Asian doesn't mean they stick together and only buy Asian cars. That is just plain silly. Do you buy German cars just because they NOT Asian? I don't think so (I would hope not anyway).

To L.Kreh,

In Germany, a BMW or Mercedes does not cost $50,000 and a Japanese car cost $25,000. BMW's & Merc's are cheap in Germany, like GM, Ford etc are cheap in the US, so, when they compare a BMW to a Japanese car in Germany (with import duties and freight etc) the prices are similar (with the correct model). They use BMW's and Mercs as taxis in Germany they're so cheap.

Germans are renowned for making technologically advanced, safe, well made cars, but the Japanese have caught up. Look at the latest offerings from Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Subaru. I have just bought the NEW Outback H6 3.0R here in Oz. Superb car. This 3lt motor puts out 240+hp. This is standard level BMW type advancement for a motor of this size (not including the M3 of course which costs 3 times as much). The Liberty/Legacy GT (2lt turbo 240+hp) would compare with any BMW of twice the price here in Oz. I know as I've driven both extensively. Wheels magazine (Oz publication) said that "the Liberty/Legacy GT was possibly one of the best touring cars ever".

The perception of BMW's and Mercedes being the "best" cars is a legacy (no pun intended) left over from years ago when they WERE far superior to the Japanese or any other make of cars. This is no longer the case. The Japanese have caught up and now produce cars of equal or better quality for a cheaper price. Face facts and get over it!

The Asian community most prevalent in my part of the country (Texas) is mostly made up of 1st and 2nd generation Vietnamese, Laotian, Thai and some Cambodian and they GREATLY prefer high end Japanese (branded) cars

- Lexus and Toyota especially.

Carl

1 Lucky Texan

Lance B wrote:

Hey, you're right! Thanks. That's made me feel better.

Andrew

TransFixed wrote:

Funny, when I visited Japan a few years ago, the Police drove Mercedes...They said they were built to last... Whereas the Japanese cars in general, were disposed of after 2 or so years... The government mandated inspection & emissions testing made it impractical to keep a vehicle over a few years old. I think it was something like, the 1st year, govt paid 100%, next year, they paid 75%, next year 50%, next 25%, next 0%, and by that time, 4-5k for inspections/testing was the norm.

2001 Jetta GLS automatic. Bought the car mainly because it appeared to be the heaviest car in it's group and the safety features. Last Thursday our daughter was broadsided on the drivers side by a 4 door Chevy Blazer.

Fortunately no one was hurt. Both she and the other young girl are okay. Rear right wheel bent, doors bent. Front and rear bumper covers ripped off. Three airbags deployed the car. She felt her head hit the side airbag that drops from the side/top. All she felt was a little pull from the seat belt.

The quality is okay, a few problems but nothing big.

The car did what it was supposed to do..she's fine.

We'll fix it and yes when the time comes, we'll buy another one. Nothing like success to get a happy customer!

That's why car dealers from New Zealand go to Japan, buy up 3 - 5 year old high spec cars with 50,000 - 100,000 km for next to nothing, bring them to NZ, sell them for mostly US$3k - US$6k, and we happily run our reliable & cheap used cars for another 100,000 - 150,000 km.

Thank you, Japanese Government!

-- Bruce

LB,

For the most part, you missed my point, which was that you'll get a different level of feedback from a customer that's critiquing a $25K car versus a $50K car. A survey that doesn't even the playing field by factoring in price is a pointless survey. That's it.

I didn't say "BMW and Mercedes are the best," much less that one class of cars is better than another. That's coming from you, not me.

-LK

No, I didn't miss the point. A Japanese car imported into Germany is thrust into a higher price bracket in comparison to the locally made product. A 318i BMW in Australia costs around AU$55,000 and a Subaru

2.5i Premium Liberty (Legacy)costs around AU$46,000. In Germany these prices would be reversed as the Liberty has higher import duty into Germany than Australia and the BMW has no import duty or any other taxes as it is made in Germany. Therefore the Subaru could concievably be more expensive than the BMW. This would apply to all levels of vehicles sold into Germany.

Now, when you say the customer is critiqing a $25,000 car to a $50,000 car it is more likely in Germany that the import is the dearer of the two. Further more, why would a customer be critiquing that level of difference in a car. Generally when people are purchasing/critiquing a car it is on the same cost basis. Why would anyone normally look at a $50,000 car when they can only afford a $25,000 car, or look at a $25,000 car when what they really want is a $50,000 car. I would even say that the survey would only critique cars of similar value in Germany.

So, my point is that, no one would critique a $25k car to a $50k car and when comparing cars IN GERMANY of the same value a car like the Liberty/Legacy would be of similar value to a BMW 318i and therefore the survey reflects that the Subaru has a better customer satisfaction result.