For those thinking of getting a TDI

Last month I celebrated my 2 years with my 2002 Jetta TDI. I bought this car brand new. I have had many problems with it. For those that would like to more about my issues you can checkout Fred's TDI page search for my user ID in the forums:

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I really tried to give my TDI a go and make the best of this high maintenance beast. I have treated this vehicle with respect and the car has been very enjoyable to drive. Fuel consumption is very good but everyone's will vary. This car is a highway car. It is not meant for the city. The reason is simple: VW's intake manifold cokes or clogs prematurely. Mine just clogged at 32,000 km. All diesels will clog eventually, but usually not until 90-100,000 km. The dealer advises that VW is very aware of this problem. As of yet, there is no fix. Shifting high doesn't help, legal mods don't work such as the EGR mod Vagcom, using Mobil Delvac high grade oil doesn't help, using the best fuel additives don't help, frequent oil changes don't help. The new PD Diesels *supposedly* are better but like the dealer said, "only time will tell".

All and all, I have had quite a bit of problems with my TDI from annoying noises, bad components (common for VW's made in Mexico) to now this problem. With the rising cost of diesel and regular unleaded now being very comparable in price to diesel I am not sad to say my TDI is up for sale. The break-even point to own a diesel vs non diesel is around 80,000 km (50,000 miles). So, from a cost basis, it's not worth it if one is like me who usually doesn't keep a car past 5 years.

I now have to decide which vehicle to get. I need something is not feminine (to me) but is also priced less than the TDI. I have looked at the Mazda 3 but I really don't like the looks. I also want ABS as standard and Toyota Corolla (kinda ladylike) doesn't have it in their base. I was looking at North American because of the huge factory rebates and because they are getting better and better. I may consider leasing because of all the headaches I have had with vehicles that I have ownded. I realize no vehicle is perfect and without problems but to inheritently have them reoccur is an issue that I have a big problem with. I don't plan to do any maintenance myself on my vehicle so reliability is a must. I was looking at the Chevy Malibu from a cost to features benefit but that has it's share of problems for 2004 and the power is not that good either.

Anyhow, I thought I would post this to those looking at getting the TDI and also to see if anyone can recommend a NEW vehicle that has full warranty as I always have to use it.

Reply to
blondee_yvr
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What about a gas-engined VW?

-- Mike Smith

Reply to
Mike Smith

I have a 2003 Jetta wagon which was made in Germany. I run Delvac 1. I have 55,000 miles on it. So far no engine problems I am aware of. I had a resistor pack in the AC fail, a seat belt fail and a leaking cv joint boot. All under warranty but I would have been annoyed if I was having to pay for those repairs. I hope the next 8 or 9 years treat me well. I tend to keep cars for a good while. Every car except for one had over 100,000 miles when I got rid of it. Most over 200,000 miles. My truck was new in 1987. Not worn out but it only has 257,000 miles. My last VW had 287,000 miles when I sold it and is still running strong. 9 vehicles over 27 years of driving.

The gas engine VWs are pretty nice. No diesel maintenance worries. I prefer the VWs over the Malibu, Cavalier, Mitsu rental cars I have driven in the past year.

I w> Last month I celebrated my 2 years with my 2002 Jetta TDI. I bought

Jim B.

Reply to
jimbehning
99.5 German built TDI Golf.

At 60K Kms the engine was inspected (I just bought the car, this was last year), turbo was 100% fine, no coking whatsoever, it was the MAF that had failed... new MAF and she was good to go, a year later VW Canada paid me back for the MAF sensor... Its now up to 102K Kms and not a single issue with the car. The only previous issue was the window regulators, a common problem - and the PO (a large corporation) took care of it.

I highly recommend the TDI's but only to people who actually want a VW, not who just need a car, any car.

Reply to
Rob Guenther

A few points:

  1. As for the coke issue, I recommend you ignore it if you live in a state that will allow you to have the check engine light on. Mine came on at 62k miles and I recently turned 134k, 2/3 hwy miles. Power and efficiency are still up to spec on my '97 Jetta TDI, though you would never expect that after the crazy talk from the dealer.

  1. VW has not kept up with (Jap) competition in terms of quality control, and I too do not intend to replace my VW with another. My first VW was a '90 Fox that met its untimely end under a Dodge Ram Dually. It had only a few minor issues come up in 86k miles, most of which I could fix in my garage. VW no longer is interested in focusing on durability or economy.

  1. One reason to own a VW is its distinctive character; this is getting phased out by VW's inexplicable marketing and too-cute styling. Gone are the days of form-follows-function, fahrvergnugen, or "drivers wanted". If VW wants to make soulless appliances, Honda/Toyota/Nissan do a better job.

  1. As to your comment about their cars 'feminizing', I think I agree. There's nothing wrong with this, but at the same time, the brand no longer fits my temperament either. All their recent ads have child seats, ambiguously gay couples (the da da da thing comes to mind), idiots who get all emotional when they pass some other idiot - not exactly high expectations for performance, etc. - bleh!

  2. recs - I am leaning toward some kind of honda, depending on my budget and when I decide to replace my current car. If you can wait ~3 years, they have some diesel powerplants in the pipe for both the accord and civic that will coincide with newer EPA regs that will allow more foreign diesels. In the mean time, the accord v6 coupe is powerful and comfortable, the civic si is sporty and cheap; the Acura TL is even nicer;the nissan altima has good power, masculine styling (?); the camry solara is nice if you are old.

regards, Keith E. Loyd

Reply to
Keith E. Loyd

I'm serious, if you want a car that will never see the shop, get a Honda Accord. Quality is down over past years imo but still an excellent car for reliability and o.k. in the drivability dept. Not as much fun as a gti but it sounds like you are looking mainly at cost of ownership and low frustration. I never recommend VW's to friends that ask my opinion (unless they're a car person and can make their own judgemt) and always recommend the Accord. Buy an Accord new, change the oil and sell it at 7 years/100k is a recipe that has worked for me. VW's are more of a hobby for me now.

Reply to
K5

: I'm serious, if you want a car that will never see the shop, get a Honda : Accord. Quality is down over past years imo but still an excellent car for : reliability and o.k. in the drivability dept. Not as much fun as a gti but : it sounds like you are looking mainly at cost of ownership and low : frustration. I never recommend VW's to friends that ask my opinion (unless : they're a car person and can make their own judgemt) and always recommend : the Accord. Buy an Accord new, change the oil and sell it at 7 years/100k : is a recipe that has worked for me. VW's are more of a hobby for me now.

I am very hesitant about owning *another* Honda. About 14 years ago I owned a Civic (the first batches made in Canada). I had endless problems with it, in fact a lot more than with VW. My friend owns a

2000 VW gasser (made in Mexico like mine) and she has some ongoing issues with it too. VW tends to be overpriced. VWCanada/USA customer service is pathetic. I won't own another VW again in my lifetime. :-(

What makes even more hesitant about Hondas is there reliability ratings, which have shown a decline. If I would get a Honda, for budget reasons I would get a 4 cylinder but I want ABS, so the price goes way up and I may be better off with a GM. If I plan to get rid of the car in 5-7 years (very likely) then a North American may not be a bad alternative since parts are cheaper and every shop knows how to repair the damn thing. Yes, the resale would be less, but getting my car B&E'ed every month would also be a hassle and make me really mad (we are in the capital of car break-ins of North America). Besides, I am leaning toward American made because there are so many rebates and incentives right now it's not funny. With Honda, well, no...it's like Sony, we are paying for the name.

Reply to
blondee_yvr

A decline from a point above VW and that is probably mainly due to the automatics. Get a manual and you probably will have zero problems. I have enjoyed my VW's over the years and still do but this is exactly why I won't recommend them to friends. Neighbors on either side of me own Passats and are disappointed because they were expecting Acura or Honda like reliability (like me and the some others on the street experience).

You're almost never better off with a GM. All Accord models now come with ABS. The parts are probably not any cheaper for a Honda than GM and you will need less parts to replace (if any). Lots of Honda dealers and independents where I'm at.

Well, it got its' name for a reason. Accords are made in the US, btw. There's a reason why GM, Chrysler and Fords have rebates and Honda's don't. And the resale value might not be an issue now but at trade in time, it will be and the Honda will be better.

Sorry you had a bad tdi experience. I thought about one but at this point in my life, I just am not interested in a vw daily driver. I might get a wild hair one of these days and go back for a new vw but for me, it's a Honda daily driver and an A2 (with all the kinks worked out) for fun.

Reply to
K5

My manual 5 speed TDI was good, but the shifting was a lot rougher than with any other car I drove except an older Ford Escort. Since I drove mostly in the city with hills, I miss the old automatic transmission. That being said, my Civic was an automatic (grrr) and the tranny was replaced three times over 4.5 years (completely under warranty). :-/ : : > budget reasons I would get a 4 cylinder but I want ABS, so the price : > goes way up and I may be better off with a GM. If I plan to get rid

: You're almost never better off with a GM. All Accord models now come with : ABS. The parts are probably not any cheaper for a Honda than GM and you : will need less parts to replace (if any). Lots of Honda dealers and : independents where I'm at.

Are Hondas still plagued with rotor warpage issues? A few years ago this was still a problem.

: Well, it got its' name for a reason. Accords are made in the US, btw. : There's a reason why GM, Chrysler and Fords have rebates and Honda's don't. : And the resale value might not be an issue now but at trade in time, it will : be and the Honda will be better.

Indeed, that's why I would have to get one with over $4-5000 off with dealer incentives. I know a friend who got a Ford Taurus recently for over $6000 off list brand new and that wasn't even a demo!!!!

: Sorry you had a bad tdi experience. I thought about one but at this point : in my life, I just am not interested in a vw daily driver. I might get a : wild hair one of these days and go back for a new vw but for me, it's a : Honda daily driver and an A2 (with all the kinks worked out) for fun.

Me too, I really would've wanted this to work out....I even was planning to tint my windows to match my black Jetta. I bought also a lot of diesel fuel additives in bulk that now I will have to give to the buyer. : :

Reply to
Mark

No car is perferfect! I'm very happy with my 99.6 mexican jetta tid that I bought new 3/11/99

JoBo

Reply to
Jo Bo

||I wonder how a person can assign gender attributes to an inanimate ||object. It is just a mode of transport. Maybe certain body lines ||appeal to you or certain genders may appear to prefer a car but it is ||just 4 wheels.

I dunno, I like driving my wife's Green NB turbo, but it's just too "cute" for a

6'4" over-50 guy. Texas Parts Guy
Reply to
Rex B

It could also be too dangerous if John Kerry and John Edwards spotted you in it. "Yooo hooo, Yooo hooo! You are tho cute in that car! Pick uth up, pick uth up!"

Reply to
K5

Well, not THAT cute :P Texas Parts Guy

Reply to
Rex B

| "I thought girls were supposed to be jealous of other girls. | Not cars." [...] | "Cars *are* girls. Didn't you know that?" [...] | Cars are girls, she had said. She hadn't been thinking of | what she was saying; it had just popped out of her mouth. | And it certainly wasn't always true; she didn't think of their | family sedan as having any particular gender; it was just a | Ford.

Let's see who recognizes that quote ...

SCNR, Erik.

Reply to
Erik Meltzer

I have a 2002 TDI and have had two maintenance issues in over 30,000 miles; a sickly passenger side window (fixed the first week I had it) and a bad ground on a turn signal light, fixed in the last 30 days with the help of the good readers here. Some time ago I had a Diesel Rabbit and ran it over 180,000 miles with little or no problems.

Neither car was high maintenance. I would call both of the very low maintenance. Sorry to hear you were not so lucky.

That said, VW in recent years has not had great reliability ratings compared to some other brands. But they appear to be doing better.

Reply to
Joseph Meehan
30,000 : miles; a sickly passenger side window (fixed the first week I had it) and a : bad ground on a turn signal light, fixed in the last 30 days with the help : of the good readers here. Some time ago I had a Diesel Rabbit and ran it : over 180,000 miles with little or no problems. : : Neither car was high maintenance. I would call both of the very low : maintenance. Sorry to hear you were not so lucky. : : That said, VW in recent years has not had great reliability ratings : compared to some other brands. But they appear to be doing better.

Indeed, perhaps you have been lucky but I know two other people who have intake clogging issues. One owns a 2000 TDI, the other owns a

2003. VW doesn't really appear to be doing better now in the reliability department. They are really sticky with the rattle and creaking one year warranty. Also, even if a problem has been mentioned prior to the warranty running out , VW will not honour or "extend" the warranty on the part after the fact unlike some of other car manufactures (so I have been told).

The North American cars are now steadfastly improving in overall quality/dependability while the German models are not if JD Powers and Consuemer Reports is accurate.

Reply to
blondee_yvr

Jim B.

Reply to
jimbehning

Reply to
Rob Guenther

Diesel cars don't make any sense financially in North America unless you want absolutely a VW. If saving money is *really* the priority, better look elsewhere. Tdi are a baaaaad purchase for 95%+ of people buying them.

Reply to
Saintor

Well that is a tired old debate. The debate was simple for me. I want either a 1.8T or a TDI. Car costs the same. The debate was did I want the performance of the 1.8t once in a while or the mileage of the TDI all the time? There was no consideration of other manufacturers because what I wanted was either a Jetta wagon or Passat wagon. At the time the Passat did not have a TDI so that made the debate easier. When you consider apples to apples, it is not that hard to see which one will save you more in fuel and dolllars.

"Sa>Diesel cars don't make any sense financially in North America unless you

Jim B.

Reply to
jimbehning

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