full synthetic VW 505 01 in North America?

If you've got AutoZone up in Canada, they sell Mobil 1 0W-40.

-- Mike Smith

That Mobil 1 does not have 505.01 listed on its specs on their website.

Have you looked at

for this answer? More tdi owners over there.

Mike Smith wrote:

Jim B.

It was my understanding that 502.00 supersedes 505.01, and that Mobil 1

0W-40 meets 502.00? ICBW, though.

-- Mike Smith

Jim B.

VW 502.00 and 505.01 are non-interchangeable.

Thanks. I checked tdiclub, and did find a reference to a full synthetic 505.01 oil there. Actually, there appear to be two, both produced by ELF, the second being 506.01. I'm now trying to find out whether 506.01 meets 505.01 requirements (it's described as being suitable for diesel pump engines, but comes in 0W30 weight instead of the 505.01's 5W40). At CDN$14/$17 respectively, they don't cost much more than Motul's semi-synthetic.

Jim B.

Mike, it's surprisingly hard to find a definitive, conclusive answer -- but my best understanding of all this is that 502.00 is the oil that must be used in the 1.8T engine, and 505.01 must be used in the turbodiesel engine with the "PD" unit injectors. They are separate specs, one did not supersede the other.

I use Elf Excellence LDX. It's $9 / Lt in canada. It doesn't specifically say 505.01, but it's got the 502.0 spec. My TDI repair guy swears by it for PD TDIs.

Mike

VW 502.00 is not the same as 505.01. Elf does make something called Excellium that meets the VW 505.01 rating.

Where do you buy your Elf oil? I prefer to stick to engine oil that specifically conforms to the 505.01 standard, such as Elf Excellium

505.01, but haven't yet found a supplier.

I just got the following e-mail response from snipped-for-privacy@boomplustoys.net:

Sorry to inform you we are going to be dropping the ELF lineup and we are clearing out whatever we have left presently

Hope to be of help to you next time Best Regards Ken Lai

...

Today I phoned boomplustoys in Vancouver and talked to Ken Lai about the availability of Elf engine oils. He told me he's willing to order quantities of five litres in, but shipping it to me would be costly. This prompted me to investigate the Elf site before plunking down $100 for my next oil change. What I found was quite interesting.

Elf's site groups auotomobile engine oils into three main categories: synthetic, semi-synthetic, and mineral. But when one looks at the specific product descriptions of the oils on the "synthetic" pages, some are labelled "synthetic technology oil" (or in French "lubrifiant de technologie de synthese").

This is the expression used for Elf Excellium DID 5W-40 (which conforms to the VW 505.01 standard), and for Elf Evolution CRV 0W-30 (VW 506.01). This is also the exact expression that Castrol tech support ("Ask and Expert") used when I pressed them to tell me whether Castrol 505.01 is a mineral, synthetic, or semi-synthetic oil. Which makes me wonder whether, in fact, Castrol 50501 Special Motor Oil is actually the same oil as Elf Excellium DID 5W-40, possibly made on the same production line?

The Castrol product's label says "Manufactured by Castrol in the EU", so it perhaps it was produced by Elf under license, or maybe it's entirely an ELF product that's been relabelled for Castrol to market in Germany and North America. The stuff sells for CDN$8.40/L at the Calgary VW dealerships, less than half what it would cost me to bring the Elf product from the coast.

OTOH, the page for Elf Excellium 0W-40 (conforming to VW 500.00 and

505.00) describes it as a "100% synthetic oil". IS this difference in terminology just a lapse in consistency, or does it actually reflect a significant difference in the product? I've written to Elf tech support in France asking for clarification, and am awaiting their response.

Sorry my bad, that's what the spec is...

specifically

I really don't think it makes much of difference, I have two TDI's, one with

240,000 and the other with 310,000 which I have used Mobil or Amzoil, (whichever I get a deal on) since new, with no problems as of yet. Last year my daughter hit a curb in a snow storm and I had to replace the oil pan in the 310,000 Golf and if looked suprisingly good on the bottom end, no sludge etc and still runs great.

If you are still interested, several of the Amzoil grades meet both 502 and the

505 specs. I have used Shell Rotella in 12v52 TI, Cummins (V12 Turbo 624HP) in Marine use for years without problems, and I believe they are under a little more stress that the VW TDI engines. I find it hard to believe that the VW spec is that critical, unless you have a waranty issue, which I believe is rare.

Good Luck, Butch

Could it be group III vs. group IV and V? In the US, group III based oils can be labeled and marketed as "synthetic", but that is not the case in some other places.

Neither VW 500.00 nor 505.00 is sufficient for a PD TDI engine; if you have a PD TDI engine that specifies VW 505.01 rated oil, use a VW 505.01 rated oil.

there is a very large sign hanging from the rear view mirror in each new pd tdi equipped 05 vehicle. this is coming from the factory. it says: do not even use a non spec oil to top off an engine. and also then goes on to say about a dozen other ways that the spec oil is the ONLY oil that can be used without voiding the warranty and that is the BEST thing that can happen; there are worse possibilities.

i'd use the spec oil on this one.

regards

The problem is that VW Canada HAS made it a major warranty issue for the TDI-PD engine. They've put a sticker on the engine cover saying nothing except oil specifically labelled VW 505.01 must EVER be used in the engine, even to top it up, and that any such transgression will void the engine warranty. They further warn that adding any non 505.01 oil can cause the engine to fail catastrophically (ie. it's a safety issue according to VW).

One interesting oddity is that one of Elf's oils which DOESN'T carry the 505.01 approval on their site, is described as being suitable for pump-diesel engines AND extended interval use. One would think that this oil would have to conform to the 505.01 standard, so why isn't it listed as such?

*****

ELF Evolution 0W30 Very high performance ¡§fuel saving¡¨ engine oil for gas (6/8 Cyl, Multi valve, turbocharged) and diesel (pump injector) engines based on most recent technologies. Extended oil change intervals. Any time of year and all driving styles. Up to 10% fuel economy.

API: SL/CF ACEA: A5/B5 VW: 503.00/506.00/506.01 FORD

***** $12USD/17CDN per Litre

...

Today I received a detailed response to my inquiries on this subject from Total USA. It seems that Total is just now setting up to distribute Elf lubricants in western Canada. The wholesaler is locatd in Vancouver, BC (1-888-307-1108) and is in the process of lining up retailers for the Elf product line in BC and Alberta.

The correspondence I received affirmed that the Elf 505.01 product is a full synthetic by North American standards, while the competing products from Castrol and Motul are not. However, the Elf 505.01 product cannot be called '100% synthetic' by European standards, while the 506.01 product can, and this accounts for the former being termed a "synthetic technology oil".

The most interesting revelation was the confirmation that Elf's Evolution 0W30 506.01 engine oil is indeed the best oil for VW TDI-PD engines, but was not specified for the North American market at the request of the North American VW organization. I wasn't given the reason for this decision, but reading between the lines, it seems to be motivated by a concern that specifying an oil that's too expensive will result in many users ignoring the specifications altogether and using a much cheaper department store oil, with disastrous results for the engine.

Here is your source.

It is available in quarts, cases (12 quarts), 30-gallon drums, and 55 gallon drums.

Contact me if you have any questions.