Gas vs. Diesel ???

Who's bitching about the price of gas? Gas is WAY TOO CHEAP in the US, which is why the country is so infested with Suburbans, Expeditions, Rams, and other obscenely inefficient vehicles.

Over here, if you sell a diesel car after 3 years, you will likely get more than the premium you paid back when you sell it. Diesel cars simpy hold their prices much better. Same goes for wagons vs. sedans.

Don't know if it's the same in the US, but if it is, only the financing costs need to be considered.

Are you sure? I know that the price went up in Toronto, Canada for diesel fuel but I believe that's just part of the general trend of higher prices (i.e., it didn't go back down once winter was over).

Jim B.

Yeah...and my coal prices go soaring in the summer when all those folks in Atlanta are running that A/C 24/7 from April to October! I park my coal powered cars all summer for that reason! (;^P)

Aren't you cracking the coal to extract oil yet? The house I grew up in in Cleveland Ohio had coal in the basement. The boiler had been converted to natural gas before we moved in though.

Are the coal prices seasonally adjusted? My house averages 11,000 to

12,000 kw hours per year fairly evenly distributed between w>

Jim B.

Just drove a diesel MB around France and Italy for two weeks. Diesel was .82 to .92 euros per liter, gas was at about 1.29 euros per liter.

Since it's less refined, diesel should be cheaper than gas, but for normal service(?) stations, it's probably higher because of the hassle factor - tank space wasted on a low volume product, and suppliers moving that same product around in expensive trucks.

Do large trucks us the same product as cars? Do highway truck stops get the same high prices as local stations. Can't imagine that independent truckers would put up with the gouging.

ds

I dunno, here on Long Island, diesel is consistently cheaper than gas, by as much as a quarter or more per gallon vs. regular.

And in Europe, something like half of all new cars are diesels, so it's certainly not a "low-volume product".

-- Mike Smith

Diesel is definitely not a low-volume product in Europe, as 30-40% of new cars sold there are diesels. In the US, there seem to be about the right number of diesel pumps for cars and pickups. The stations having diesel generally have one diesel pump for every four gas pumps, and while there are rarely waiting lines for diesel, the pumps get used on a regular basis.

The trucks use the same product as far as I know. At least the stuff from truck stops works in my Jetta and I assume the stuff sold at "car" gas stations would work in the trucks. It would take a long time to pump 200 gallons at a car station, though. As far as prices, what you see posted on the big signs along the interstate is what the truckers pay.

Econ 101 of fuels.

Crude oil is a mix of hydrocarbons. It naturally has X% of diesel and X% of gasoline. Different oils have slightly different numbers. The refining process can push those %'s a little in either direction, but not that much without costing a lot of money.

All this means is if a lot of gasoline is being used it gets relatively more expensive and the same for diesel. Remember that diesel is about the same as heating oil so you have to add those two together. Diesel is usually a little cheaper in summer (low heating oil use - high gasoline use) and the other way around in winter. Other factors like tax, competition etc can also come into play.

Based on prices in this area Diesel is $1.699 and cheapest gasoline is $1.949 Diesel Jetta gets 48 mpg Gasoline Jetta gets 27mpg.

15,000 per year for the diesel takes 312.5 gallons @1.699 = $530.94 15,000 per year for gasoline takes 555.5 gallons @1.949 = $1082.66 Typical life of a gasoline engined Jetta would be about 200K Typical life of a diesel engined Jetta would be about 250K Purchase price of a Gasoline Jetta GL is $17430 Purchase price of a Diesel Jetta GL is $18670 Insurance at 700 per year each Not factoring in maintenance Over ten years then the average cost for a Diesel would be $30979 Over ten years then the average cost for the gas would be $35250 On a per mile basis Gasoline .235 per mile Diesel .206 At that time, the value of the diesel car will be considerably higher. VWs have high residual value compared to most automobiles.

Compared to the Honda Hybrid at 42mpg and $21000 Total cost at 10 years would be $34960 But, there is considerable concern about battery life and disposal fees. The Diesel Jetta EVEN with today's fuel is EQUAL to the gasoline engines over 150,000 miles.

Compared to the same car in gasoline the Diesel will save about $4600 Compared to a Honda Hybrid the Diesel would be about $4000 cheaper.

I've calculated that for the difference in price alone, you could drive a Diesel about 130,000 miles compared to the Honda and 166,000 miles compared to the Toyota.

'Course, the truck drivers (and the locomotive engineers, while we're at it) are not filling up with "premium diesel" (

). And apparently truckers put up with the gouging. When I bought my '99.5 TDI, diesel was frequently 90 cents (U.S.) per gallon. Now it's more than half again that. Not like it's harder to find. Or make. Or that it's of any higher quality. It's gouging, plain and simple.

sd

No, it's simple supply and demand. Oil supply is limited and demand is constantly growing. I'll be surprised if prices fall below the current level ever again (on a yearly average).

I remember when "Premium Diesel" first came out, I was driving a second-hand Mercedes 240D at the time. I asked around and the consensus in the newsgroups and and according to the MB Club newsletter at the time , was that there was absolutely no reason at all to use it (and pay extra).

But I haven't followed the topic since then.

What sayeth the VW experts ?

- FM -

Huh?

Get a clue, or better yet, why don't you just move to Italy or someplace so you can pay more for gas, dumbass.

Why do the dumbest people always make this comparison between countries without taking anything else into consideration?

Dumbass!

I sayeth (not really an expert but I own two diesels) that the Premium Diesel (Gulf station) was the same money as the regular diesel elsewhere. The one diesel I used it on didn't show any difference in performance.

I'd just like to point out that this "dumbass", although named Mike Smith, is not me. I happen to share his sentiment, but would like to think that I would not be quite so abrasive in its expression.

-- Mike Smith

Jim B.

I'm no VW expert, but I think I know what my cars ('99.5 Jetta TDI, '03 Jetta Wagon TDI) like, and they like the good stuff. Quicker starts with less smoke (biodiesel is even better), less smoke under WOT acceleration, quieter, ...

But you do have to be careful. Just 'cuz the old, faded sticker on the pump says "Premium" doesn't mean they're still pumping the good stuff. And some companies seem to label it "Premium" if all they've done is filtered out the small animals and wood chips.

Finally, and I'll admit I'm treading onto virgin ground for me, normally-aspirated diesels (like a 240D) may be much less sensitive to premium diesel than extra-high-pressure turbodiesels.

sd