I have a 1997 Mk 3 Golf GTI 1984cc 8v and for about the last 6 months I have been having trouble with it cutting out. At first it was very intermittent but gradually happened more and more often. It cuts out not only when idling or slowing down, can be when accelerating as well. Cuts dead and will not start immediately but after approx 30-secs to a min starts as if nothing happened. Has been to the garage on numerous occasions and has had fuel pump relay (451440030) and sensor meter replaced - on both occasions seemed to be fixed as no problems for about a month or so but then starts again. Any help you could offer would be very much appreciated as getting to the end of my tether and it is getting increasingly expensive!!!! (ps I'm a girl who knows very little about cars.....and yes I know what you are thinking 'not even how to drive one'!! So please if you could keep it as simple as possible I would really appreciate it). Thanks for any help!! Macca
Hi, I went through similar symptoms with an '85 Golf. Replacing some parts seemed to solve the problem for a few weeks then the intermittent stalling returns. The car would restart in a few minutes and run fine as if nothing had happened.
Along with the fuel pump relay, a common troublespot is the fuel transfer pump inside your gas tank. It fails or runs intermittently thereby starving fuel supply to the main fuel pump located under your gas tank. Search this news group for "transfer pump" for lots of info on how to tell if your pumps are running (you can hear them). Also search this news group for "stalling". There is lots of good advice here.
How many kilometres or miles on your vehicle? On our case the '85 with 236,000 km, it turns out the problem was a faulty Hall Effect Sender in the distributor. I don't know the ignition system in an '97 though. Something to consider, but I'd put the Hall Sender low on the probable cause list, check your fuel system. The other aspect is to determine if this is an electrical problem. See other posts about "battery ground straps", "ignition control unit", and "ground fuse box".
I plan to post on the Hall Sender later if we get through a couple months without the car stalling. I thought I had the problem solved before but after previous blissful 3-5 week periods of no stalling, the stalling would come back. Expect your diagnosis to be one of trial and error. Go with the least cost replacements first (fuel pump relay, transfer fuel pump, fuel filter, and check all the battery and fuse box grounds and fuel pump relay socket for good clean connections). If your shop recommends an expensive option, check it out on this newsgroup for
2nd opinions.
Good luck and drive with an eye to always having an escape route so you can pull over to a safe place when the car next stalls. Know where you hazard light switch is.
I am thinking Crank Position Sensor (or Engine Speed Sensor). My VW parts guy tells me that he sells a lot of these but none for the VR6 engine which is what I needed to purchase. Might just be some corroded connections.
I have also seen quite a few defective Ign. Coils (Ign. Transformer) too. Either weak output or affected by moisture. I will ASSuME that the ign. distributor rotor is relatively new and BOSCH and not an aftermarket one that might be malfunctioning.
Or it could be the ign. switch. Do you have a lot of keys on your key ring? Do the red idiot lights come on when the engine dies? If not I would suspect the ign switch. Or do those lights NOT come on while cranking the engine and it is not starting? If so then I would suspect the ign switch.
Hi there, thanks for that will have a look at what you have said. The car has done just over 80,000 mile (km?!? not sure). Not sure what some of these things are but I will have to do some more research. The garages seem to think it is an electrical problem. Don't think its the ignition coil (as had a new one) and would doubt its the battery thing cos have never had any problems starting - apart from immediately after stalling. Thanks again for the help and will keep fingers crossed that you have found your problem!!!
Well the ignition coil was changed - so shouldn't be that - not sure about the ign distributor rotor though....will have to check that one out! I actually only have remote locking button thing on key ring....cos my Dad always used to tell me off for putting all my keys on the car ring!! The red lights do come on when the engine cuts....does that mean that its def not the ignition switch? Thanks for your help
Cuts Dead - does it really cut dead or do the revs just gently drop to 0 over a 5/6 second period? If it does then its fuel relay or fuel pump problem. If it cuts out dead without misfiring first, then see the coil-wire/rotor/distributor-cap solutions below. If it misfires once or twice first (or just battles to maintain revs first), then read the electronics bit below.
Does the car do this when hot, cold or both? When hot or both, see the coil-wire/rotor/distributor-cap solutions below. When cold only, see the electronics bit below.
Is the climate getting warmer or colder?
Has the fuel consumption changed (for better or worse)?
Only after a spell of wet weather, or even if there was no rain for months?
Electrical (not electronic): A lot of people (including the posters here, I suppose) are going to think "electrical!". I do not think this for the following reasons: a) A bad contact electrical problem (loose earth, etc) will make itself know when going over bumps, etc (i.e. while the car is in motion). If it was a broken contact, then the car wont start again anyway, no matter how long you wait. If it is a bad contact that caused the car to switch off, then it is going to stay off until you jog the contact back into position. b) It is almost impossible to have isolated electrical problems. When something goes wrong (electrically), you should see other things that wont work properly (e.g. bad/intermittent contact *will* cause car to occasionally misfire (if it is a wire that can potentially stall the car)). Non-intermittent electrical problems wont magically fix themselves. I cannot think of any possible scenario where an electrical (not electronic) problem results in what you experienced. A dodgy HT lead (which has different conductive properties when hot) will likely only produce a misfire, and not stall the car completely. Check the coil HT wire; start the car in the dark (so you can see if it sparks anywhere), let it warm up and then move the coil HT wire around a little; especially try to get it as close as posssible to the body of the car. A spark means that it must be replaced. Don't worry about the plug HT wires - I find it highly unlikely that all of them would cut out at the same time, whereas its perfectly logical that a dodgy coil wire would cut out the car completely.
Mechanical: This seems more likely, given that your 30-second wait starts the car. 30 seconds is more than long enough to allow a mechanical part to cool down. Possible culprit here is the rotor and distributor cap. A hairline crack in either might make them work when below a certain temperature only - that 30 second wait leads me to believe that it is almost certainly either the rotor or the distributor cap; 30 seconds is enough for either one to start working again.
Also, note that rubber insulators subject to mechanical stress under varying temperatures will stop insulating as well. Dunno how it could affect the car, but its something to keep in mind.
Electronic: This is the biggie, and potentially the hardest to pinpoint. Try the above suggestions before going for this one.
Certain solder joints in electronic equipment become non-functional after a certain amount of time. Although the electronic board and/or solder joint looks good, they may only be conducting under certain conditions (believe me, I've had this occur to me no less than 5 times in 2005 alone, in various electronic equipment round the house and garage). Frequently heating the suspected circuit over a stovetop (hold it in your bare hands to that you know when it is too hot) will fix the bad joint for at least a few months; alternatively, I've had much success chucking bad computer hard-disks into the freezer for 5 minutes so that they "fix" long enough to get data off them:-).
The problem is actually worse in a cold climate, as the expansion and contraction is greater because the difference in operating temperature and parked-in-the-garage-overnight temperature is greater.
You see this problem mostly in relays and circuitry.
You say you've got a new fuel pump relay, thats good, but I suggest you find a different mechanic, as it seems that your mechanic guessed. I assume that the car did not gently lose RPM over 5/6 seconds? Well, in that case your mechanic (if he had asked) would have realised it could not have been either fuel pump or fuel relay, as the decrease in fuel pressure would not cause the car to cut our immediately, but would instead gradually slow the engine down (over 5-6 seconds).
I suggest instead that you should've changed the ignition relay(s) instead of fuel pump relay. They are cheap, so go ahead and do it.
Now, the circuitry is a lot harder to diagnose. If you can get your hands on the ignition circuit (commonly called the computer) then try running the engine at idle while applying a little pressure to the circuit board (not too much, you dont want to break it in two!). Hold it with one hand on either side, and bend and twist (gently!) all the directions that you can. Turn 90dgrees and repeat.
The slight bending/twisting should be enough to cause a bad solder joint to lose contact long enough to at least cause the engine to misfire once (if not switrch off completely).
If that happens, congratulations, you've identified the culprit!
If not, then attempt to borrow one (swap with a friends car) from an identical car and drive around for a few months. If your friend now has your problem, and you have none, then you've got the bugger!
Anyway, if you post more information, perhaps I can narrow down (or even come up with a few more theories) the problem.
I just was looking for anwers for the same car and same problem, so it seems that the problem is common among these Golfs :) I can be a bit more specific about the problem:
1) The cutting off only happen at certain temperature - at approximately 70-75 degrees Celsium (not so often) and at the time the temperature reaches ~90 degrees Celsium (more often).
2) The cutting off is immediate if the engine is idle, it just stalls. If engine runs at approximately 2000 rpm - then there is a half second time when the engine is working somehow differently (the time is just enough to realize that I have to prepare for engine stalling) and then it stalls.
3) As it was said before - after 30-60 seconds the car starts as nothing has happened, before that it seems like no ignition or no fuel.
4) Previously the problem occured like once-twice per month, and after stalling I could drive without any problems, but in the last 3 days the engine stalls every time the temperature reaches 90 degrees and it now happens more than once per drive.
I already red the previous answers, but maybe the possible cause of the problem could now be identified more precisely?
Didn't 1997 cars have a problem with a bad ignition switch? Other than that, I would suspect the fuel pump. My 95 Golf 2.0 would similarly cut out on very hot days when accelerating from a stop light (it only did that a few times), but it also began to cut out on corners more and more when the fuel level was low. I pulled the old pump out and sure enough, the rubber membrane at the bottom was ripped. A new fuel pump fixed the problem.
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