I think I destroyed my clutch.

I got a quick story about my 82 VW 1.7 gasser pickup. I was on my way back from vacation on a 7 hour drive. I stop to use the restroom at a gas station and upon trying to restart my truck, the 9 month old starter refuses. (The solenoid has been getting very flakey. It will often not throw when I hit the key, and I can hear the "wizz" of the starter spinning free.) So... I give the truck a good push, jump in, jam it in 1st and dump the clutch. It jumps to life. Good. But I hear this wierd noise that I can best describe as putting a pinch of sand in an empty coffee can and shaking it. I am assuming that I shredded some stuff off the clutch disk and it was rattling around. I would guess that the clutch has about 70k to 80k miles on it while the truck has about 190k. I did get home OK, but it seems to go into 1st and reverse with difficulty at times and sometimes a bit of griding. I have adjusted the cable to give the most clutch release travel for good measure. I think I will tackle this before I head back to college. I will do the rear main seal as well. What else should be done while the tranny is out? Any thoughts on the starter? Dang remans. Oh! and where should I buy a clutch that will last, but wont force me to the pawn shop? Are napa clutches and good?

Reply to
thateb
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Next time jam it into 4th (or OD, or 5th) when you do this. Much easier on the clutch (and transmission...)

Reply to
PeterD

I've heard this before, but I can't understand the logic. First, I don't see why push-starting is an issue for the transmission. There's going to be a slightly shock load from "engine braking" when you dump the clutch, but probably no more so than driving at high speed in 1st gear and then coming off the gas.

Regarding the clutch... Yeah, it'd be easier on the clutch to do it in 5th gear, but its certainly not easier on the engine, or the pusher. My engine seems like its going to lug itself to death (and thats with the close-ratio tranny) in 5th at < 20 mph. I don't know about you, but unless I'm going down a hill, I think I'd have a hard time pushing the car to more than 10 mph or so, and I think even that'd be stretching it if I were push starting it without assistance. No way I'd want the engine to be in 5th gear at 10 mph, not even 4th or 3rd. If the engine can't put out enough torque to keep itself going, not much point in even trying to push start.

As for clutch wear... Let's be realistic. In 1st gear, the car's probably going 5-6 mph at idle speed. The speed difference between clutch disc and pressure plate is probably not much different from just starting in 1st gear from a standing start with the engine on and idling. Is popping the clutch good for it? Of course not, but I'm not sure it really does that much damage. I've push started cars a number of times over the years and never burned out a clutch doing that.

In response to the original question. On my 86 Jetta it would make a faint slightly scratchy whirring noise when in gear and moving with the clutch pushed in. I don't know why. I don't know what the noise was. But it never caused me a problem either.

Reply to
blah

Reply to
thateb

It usually isn't.

Let the clutch out, and as soon as the engine catches clutch back in! Shift to first and start off. Don't try to drive off in 4th or 5th!

Only engauge the clutch long enough to start the engine, no longer, that's the trick!

I"ve push started many cars over the years (way too many years, and certainly too many cars!) and most I could do by myself as long as it is flat or very slightly down hill.

Practice it... Clutch out quickly in 4th or 5th, just quick enough to turn over the motor.

"Popping" the clutch to start it won't do any good at all. There's no need for it, and that just shows lack of experience.

I've never heard of any one damaging the clutch doing it properly. THat is clutch out (smoothly) until engine just spins over, then back in.

Probably (IMHO!) gear noise.

Reply to
PeterD

yep. I've done it in 1st gear but I push the pedal back in as soon as the engine begins to catch. i don't fully engage the clutch or dump it or pop it. It's just not necessary. it doesn't take much to get an engine (that's in working order) going.

Reply to
Matt B.

Is there a way to get a sense of the condition of the clutch without actually removing the transmission? I know that the clutch has a good

80k miles > > "Popping" the clutch to start it won't do any good at all. There's no need > > for it
Reply to
thateb

I'm not out to make you feel any worse about your car, but just FYI I would worry about a twisted transmission mainshaft. They are hollow. When you have the trans out to check or replace the clutch, put the clutch disc on the transmission and make sure it turns easily and smoothly. It's not the end of the world if you did damage the mainshaft, transmissions are only 1 or 2 hundred bucks from a junkyard. You need not find an '81 transmission, many VWs from '81 up through '91 could make a suitable transmission donor.

I always push start in 2nd and ease out the clutch. The crankshaft, conrods, and pistons are quite heavy -- the law of inertia says objects at rest like to stay at rest, and they will resist jolting into motion when you pop the clutch in 1st.

Reply to
tylernt

Reply to
none2u

Depending on how well it's treated, it's good for about another 120K :) My Mk2 has 193.5K and still has the original clutch.

About the only thing I know of is to test for slippage. Find a road with a speed limit of about 35-50 mph and a hil and not a lot of traffic. Slow down to about 30mph in a fairly high gear so that the engine is going around

1500 rpm. Now floor the accelerator but do not downshift. If engine revs climb disproportionately to the car's speed, it's probably slipping. Then, take your foot off the gas. If the revs immediately drop (as the lack of a load causes things to "catch" again), this is further confirmation that it's slipping.
Reply to
Matt B.

Reply to
thateb

Reply to
none2u

Reply to
thateb

If you are a burly man, you can lay under the trans, have someone unbolt it, then move it over and lower it to your chest. You will want the car jacked up really really high so you can get it out from under the radiator.

If you are a weakling like me, I looped an old coathanger through the loop on top of the trans. Bending over the car, I braced myself on the raintray (cowl) and held the wire while someone undid the bolts, then we pulled it (pried it, really, it was kind of stuck) off the mainshaft and I lowered it to the ground with the coathanger. I had to have somebody bench press it back in place upon reassembly, though.

Of course, I'm assuming you already know to support the engine with a cherry picker, or with a 4x4 slung across the engine bay and a long

3/8" threaded hook drilled through it and affixed with a washer and a nut on top. You can raise and lower the engine by turning the nut one way or the other. I don't recommend you just jack up the oil pan with a board instead of suspending the engine, as that would be awfully tippy and I would consider it dangerous.
Reply to
tylernt

Reply to
thateb

Interesting. VW does not use alignment dowels on the flywheel that I am aware of, the only other thing I could think of would be peices of the clutch pushrod but if that were the case I don't think you'd be able to disengage the clutch.

Perhaps they are the remains of rivets that were ripped out of the clutch disc / spring assembly?

Reply to
tylernt

Reply to
none2u

Nope to both ideas. I finally got the whole works on the bench. The clutch disk was very intact if not a bit thin tho. All rivets seem to be in place. Along with those little metal cylinders, I found bits of springs that were sitting in and wedged in the pressure plate. There are two dowels on the flywheel. I am wondering if those metal cylinders rode on springs and sat on the dowels. There are two through holes on the pressure plate assembly that they will sit in nicely. I will have a better idea when I get my new Sachs clutch kit.

Reply to
thateb

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