Lighting question (DS?)

It sounds to me like your fog lights are broken. Properly functioning fog lights should help with the EXACT problem you are asking about. That is, they should help you to see the road surface better. As we're talking about stock fog lights, it must be a design problem. For that matter, are you sure you haven't blown a fuse? :) Some people install aftermarket fog lights upside down, blinding other drivers in the process. And then they wonder why the fog lights don't seem to help much. :) But for fog lights, most of the light should be directed downward to light the road in front of you. Somehow, this isn't happening. Your LOW beams should help in bad weather, also. -Dave

Things like mirrors and sheets of glass and the surface of a calm lake reflect light in what is known as a "specular" manner -- light rays bounce off the surface at an angle equal and opposite to that at which they strike the surface. Hold a flashlight at a 45 degree angle to the right of a mirror on the wall, and the flashlight beam will exit the mirror at a 45 degree angle to the left of the mirror.

Things like a sheet of typing paper or a brick wall reflect light in what is known as a "diffuse" manner -- light rays bounce off the surface at all sorts of different angles because the surface is rough. Some of the light will bounce back towards the light source. When the road surface is dry, your headlamps have an easy time illuminating it for you, because the road surface is a diffuse reflector and some of the headlamp light bounces back off the road towards your eyes.

When the road gets wet, it becomes a specular reflector, and that explains both "wet road glare" from oncoming cars' headlamp reflections in the road in front of them, and the tendency of wet roads to resist all efforts at illumination from the driver's perspective.

The road markers were disappearing because they were not in proper condition. Road lines are initially retroreflective -- that is, they bounce light back towards the light source through a range of input angles, like an overhead road sign or a car's red rear reflectors. This road line retroreflectivity is achieved by applying the paint and then blowing glass beads onto it so that they stick to the paint. There are problems with the application of the glass beads -- if it's a windy day when they're applied, they will mostly blow away before they can hit and stick to the paint. Also, over time they get ground off the road surface. It can be very scary indeed to lose all reference of lane positioning!

European headlamps will do a better job in this situation because they tend to produce more and wider foreground light (light on the road surface in front of the car) than US DOT headlamps. That said, the current Golf IV DOT headlamps produce more foreground light than many DOT headlamps, so the difference in this case will not be as large as it would be if you were starting out with a more traditional DOT headlamp producing almost no foreground light.

NEVER in DOT headlamps!

A set of good-quality, high-performance fog lamps (e.g. Hella Micro DE) mounted as low as possible, would also help somewhat.

I have yet to see the VW product made in the last three decades that had completely adequate headlight wiring from the factory, but the latest models are better in this regard.

DS

Is it not illegal to use fog lights in american unless vision is seriously impaired like it is here in england? :) People who have fog lights on get a $96 on the spot fine.here.

Wouldn't *that* be nice...is it actually enforced these days?

DS

Most so-called "fog lamps" on North American-market vehicles are worthless or nearly so, even when properly operating and properly aimed.

DS

Last guy I encountered in light rain at night with the rear fog ablaze didn't even understand why I flashed the high beams....

I should really put a big bright red rear lamp on my cars to give these idiots a taste of their own actions...

So what you're telling me is, I need to get off my lazy ass and install them, then :)

Well, at least you didn't tell me to buy anything *else*...

Yes, I was still using the stock fog lights mounted in the headlight clusters, the Micro DEs are sitting safely in a box on my bookshelf :/

nate

In the US, fog lights are low mounted front directed not too bright lights. They do not have the rear fog light. Frankly I think it would be a good idea, IF the drivers could learn to use it, but frankly I doubt if they will. The road and weather conditions in the US don't call for them, as much.

They are allowed, but not required. Many US spec cars have rear fogs. Volvo, Audi, MB, a couple GM models, jaguar, and probably others I've failed to mention.

The last idiot I was behind with one on was driving an Audi on IL 53.

If the halogen ones are anything like the HID ones I have, then I'd definitely go for them.

As Daniel posted recently (in another thread), just having more foreground light won't solve the problem if the headlamps do not throw a "good" pattern of light.

Comparing DOT halogens to DOT HIDs, the HIDs looked better (subjectively) because there is more foreground light. When comparing DOT HIDs to ECE HIDs, the ECE ones looked better because the foreground light was distributed over a wider area (as well as the fact that the right side of the cutoff wasn't limited by the stupid VOR aiming spec).

If you can afford it, get the ECE headlamp assemblies for your VW.

Some cars sold in the US have rear fog lights. They are often left turned on when there is no fog, to the annoyance of those behind.

I used a set of PIAA driving lights on my last truck, and I could kick myself for leaving them on it when I traded it in. I'm not sure of the model number, but they were the ones with the purplish looking lenses, about 4" to

Gee, Swatcop, from this post it appears you think yourself above lighting laws. I spot at least two violations of lighting usage laws in *every* state and province in your description above. Was this deliberate on your part, or do you just not know what you're doing?

DS

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, swatcop wrote:

2> Gee, Swatcop, from this post it appears you think yourself above

The lamps you describe do not conform to SAE J581, among other reasons because they illuminate yellow instead of white and there is blue light visible off axis. Driving lamps are required to emit *white* light, and blue light is not allowed anywhere within the beam. Fog lamps are allowed to emit white, yellow, or white-to-yellow, but you say you had *driving* lamps. Driving lamps are required to be wired such that they can ONLY be used with the high beams, so the fact yours were "not used in conjunction with the highbeams" indicates noncompliance, not compliance. Driving lamps are regarded the same as high beam lamps, in that they are not permitted for use in traffic or conditions of reduced visibility due to rain, fog, snow, etc. (often phrased in state law similarly to "shall not be operated so as to cause glare", which driving lamps do regardless of aim), so your statement that your lamps were terrific in hurricane/blizzard conditions indicates noncompliance. Further, there is no such thing as an "off road user only" lamp. Manufacturers or distributors may apply such labelling to items of motor vehicle equipment not compliant with applicable Federal standards, but there is no provision in law for motor vehicle equipment not intended for roadgoing use but capable of being installed on a roadgoing vehicle, therefore "off road use only" is meaningless in the eyes of Federal and a large and increasing number of States' law.

Maybe you actually had the fog lamp version of the lamps you describe. But that's not what you said -- you said you had driving lamps.

DS

And so it panned out that the following script was sculpted by none other than Timothy J. Lee:

Return the "favour" with your driving beams (E marked of course), if there is no oncoming traffic to blind. This would also be effective on rural highways at night were some inconsiderate putztard to decide he wasn't gonna yield to you on the passing zone and wanted to block you for the next 20 miles.

Why do you think I have a set of 100 watt driving lights mounted to the car? and 2 sets mounted on the J**P (actually 1 set is mounted to illuminate more of the ditches and shoulders, but quite effective anyways)

Snow...

"off road use only" means just that, they can only be used while NOT driving on any legal roads,, which means you can use them while driving on private property, on bush trails or any other place not deemed a "legal road" by any highway traffic act or laws.

Snow...

That's a good common-sense definition, but it is not supported by law. Many people think it is, but -- nope, it's not. There is no legal definition of an "off road use only" lighting device.

DS