Lighting question (DS?)

Hmmm... That was a very well thought out and eloquently phrased response. However, in NJ (where I originally bought them and had them professionally installed), they ARE LEGAL. If not, then I guess the guys working at the state vehicle inspection stations don't know their jobs (mandatory vehicle inspections in NJ). Also, in NJ it doesn't matter if the fog/driving/auxiliary/whatever lights are yellow or white, if the high-beam headlights are on then the auxiliary lights must go off. Auxiliary lights could only be used in conjunction with the low-beam headlights. My PIAAs didn't emit anything "blue" whatsoever (I don't recall mentioning anything about blue lenses, etc.), and I don't really care if they were called driving lamps, fog lamps, auxiliary lamps, or Rudolph's red nose lamps. They worked extremely well in all conditions, they were legal, and I'd buy them again. Right now I don't have room for them because of all of the "off-road use only" lamps that I have mounted on the pushbar of my Tahoe with the 6" lift and 38" tires. Oh, and yes there are such things as lights designed for off-road use only due to the intensity of the lights. If you want to squabble about manufacturer's specifications versus enforcement then by all means pin on a shield and spend your evenings in traffic court for all of the bullshit tickets that you wrote. Not only will the judge think you're an asshole, but you'll get real tired of spending all of your time in court real fast.

Reply to
swatcop
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That is indeed the case: They don't know an illegal light from a Sunkist tree-ripened orange. I know of a great many cars travelling the roads of NJ with lamps that do not comply with Federal *or* NJ requirements.

Actually, yeah, it does. NJ incorporates Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108 by reference into its lighting code, and FMVSS 108 requires driving lamps to be no color other than *white*. Also, there is no such thing as a "fog/driving/auxiliary/whatever" light. Fog lamps and driving lamps are two different kinds of auxiliary lights, and they are treated individually in FMVSS 108 and in NJ's vehicle code.

This applies to fog lamps, not driving lamps. They are not the same.

Actually, yes they did, and yes you did. You indicated they had a "purplish coating and shined yellow" -- this is PIAA's "Ion Crystal" dichroic lens coating. Lamps so equipped emit blue light outside the axis of the beam.

Which proves my point: You don't give much a f*ck about complying with actual lighting laws, you'd rather just go with your guesses and assumptions and misunderstanding of the laws you're required to follow...and enforce.

Sorry, no. There is no provision in any state or Federal lighting code for lamps intended for "off road use only".

It's not a matter of manufacturer's specifications. It's a matter of law.

You might want to spend a few minutes browsing fmvss108.tripod.com , which does a pretty good job explaining Federal and state lighting codes.

DS

Reply to
Daniel Stern Lighting

And so it panned out that the following script was sculpted by none other than Snow:

Well the main reason for having them tbh is to see better at night on dark roads; the other uses, such as "dealing" with inconsiderate putztards(tm) are just "unintended benefits".

Of course, it's probably technically illegal to run more than two pairs of high beams at once, but wth...

Reply to
E.R.

Yes, there are, but they can't strictly legally be mounted to a road going vehicle.

Why would the judge think you were an asshole? You'd be raking in revenue and enforcing the law. Now, I don't particularly *agree* with the law (I wouldn't ticket anyone unless they were clearly *using* the illegal lights... definitely not if they had rock covers on them) but that doesn't change it.

Hmm, sounds like the arguments I usually get from cops in the interminable speed limit threads

Reply to
Nate Nagel

I havent had time to check yet, but is there anything listed in regards to this in Canada?? be interesting to know.

Snow...

Reply to
Snow

More like I've been doing it for 15+ years and I am able to realize the difference between law on paper and common sense law. I could give a rat's ass about the state or federal specifications on driving lights or fog lights. Nobody sent me to any courses to teach me about this particular brand of crap that they want enforced, nor did I receive anything explaining it to me, so I rely on good ole' common sense. Are your lights too bright that they're blinding people? If the answer is yes, then I pull you over and either tell you about it or issue a citation. Are your lights not bothering anyone? No? Then I leave you alone. Pretty simple, actually. Oh, and I've spent enough time with enough judges, prosecutors, and attorneys behind closed doors to know that these citations for lighting equipment are not really the highlight of their evenings. Just something that makes them stay a little bit longer.

Oh, and actually someone else cross posted another topic which is how I found this particular group. Thanks for the welcome.

Reply to
swatcop

Here ya' go, straight out of the Florida State Statutes:

316.233 Spot lamps and auxiliary lamps (1) SPOT LAMPS.-Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two spot lamps and every lighted spot lamp shall be so aimed and used that no part of the high intensity portion of the beam will strike the windshield, or any windows, mirror, or occupant of another vehicle in use. (2) FOG LAMPS.-Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two fog lamps mounted on the front at a height not less than 12 inches nor more than 30 inches above the level surface upon which the vehicle stands and so aimed that when the vehicle is not loaded none of the high intensity portion of the light to the left of the center of the vehicle shall at a distance of 25 feet ahead project higher than a level of 4 inches below the level of the center of the lamp from which it comes. Lighted fog lamps meeting the above requirements may be used with lower head lamp beams as specified in 316.237(1)(b). *(316.237[1][b] states: There shall be a lowermost distribution of light, or composite beam, so aimed and of sufficient intensity to reveal persons and vehicles to a distance of at least 150 feet ahead; and on a straight level road under any condition of loading none of the high intensity portion of the beam shall be directed to strike the eye of an approaching driver). (3)AUXILIARY PASSING LAMPS.-Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two auxiliary passing lamps mounted on the front at a height not less than 24 inches nor more than 42 inches above the level surface upon which the vehicle stands. The provisions of 316.237 shall apply to any combination of head lamps and auxiliary driving lamps. (4)AUXILIARY DRIVING LAMPS.-Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two auxiliary driving lamps mounted on the front at a height not less than 16 inches nor more than 42 inches above the level surface upon which the vehicle stands. The provisions of 316.237 shall apply to any combination of head lamps and auxiliary driving lamps.

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Reply to
swatcop

What happened to the law is the law obey the law?

First jaybird doesn't like DRLs and automatic headlamps, now you without outright illegal lighting. What other laws does the rigid obey the law crowd break?

You've all (those from the law enforcement groups) posted how we should obey speed limits that are cearly nonsensical because they are the law and that's the way the law is written. You all (group) tell us to go the

55mph speed limit when traffic is flowing at 75mph because it's the law and that "common sense law" of going with the flow does not justify disobeying the posted speed limit. Yet, when it comes to your use of illegal vehicle lighting, the story changes. The law as written is idiotic, and "common sense law" prevails.

So you don't pull someone over for driving 80mph on a clear straight interstate posted at 55mph with a 75mph flow speed in light to non-existant traffic when he isn't bothering anyone driving in perfectly courteous and reasonable manner?

Yeah, not as profitable as speeding tickets. But the precious law is still being violated.

And being glare sensitive, I'll say one thing, the crappy lights that are allowed in the USA are bad enough, but the illegal ones are a hell of alot more danger to me than someone who drives on the interstate as if it were the autobahn. (read as fast, effiecent courteous driving)

Reply to
Brent P

In regards to your reply to a conversation that didn't pertain to you, I'll waste a couple of minutes and dignify you with a response.

  1. The law is the law. That is true. I didn't write it, I enforce it. Luckily there's a thing called "discretion" that determines whether or not I issue citations for infractions of the law. Another term for discretion is "common sense."
  2. I don't use illegal lighting. Find me the law that says my lights are illegal and I won't use them anymore.
  3. When did I ever post anything saying that I'd cite someone for going with the flow of traffic? You state that someone driving on a 55 mph posted road at 75 mph in no traffic is OK? Why? Because there aren't any other cars around? What about people/pedestrians? Broken down cars? Animals? There are more reasons than you are thinking of for the speed limit to be what it is.
  4. If you're "glare sensitive" you can probably pick up some of those wrap-around 3-D looking glasses that I see the "youthfully challenged" motorists wearing.
Reply to
swatcop

This is usenet and I reserve the right to come out of lurk mode on a thread any time I damn well feel like it. You want a private conversation, use email.

The situation has been created where nearly everyone is a violator and the police get to pick and choose who to enforce the laws against. Thanks for confirming that.

We just all have to guess what individual cops will accept. Don't you see the problem with this sort of system?

Daniel showed clearly that the lighting on that vehicle you had was illegal.

You told cory to do the speed limit just a couple days ago. And note, I was using you in the group sense and made that *VERY* clear by labeling it as such. The law enforcement crowd posting into this group has clearly all supported a law-is-the-law approach to speed limits.

And for the record, someone obeying a 55mph speed limit on a 75mph road in 75mph traffic is endangering himself needlessly. But, that's the law.

As for the rest, I can come with all sorts of what if's for your formerly owned vehicle's lighting too. And BTW, if you can't see a broken down car or animal/human big enough to cause a problem on a clear straight interstate with enough time to stop then you shouldn't be driving. As far as pedestrains, well what are they doing playing on the interstate? (hmm... it's becoming clear now why you deleted the context of my post)

Typical response of the idiotic just-look-away-from the glare crowd. Why not just require good headlamps like in europe? (I've driven in europe and the problem mysterously went away, cept in the rain)

Reply to
Brent P

You're right. Likewise, I have the right to ignore you, which I'll do in the future.

There are problems with every system you can think of, from NASA to changing a light bulb. If you live in an area where lighting equipment laws are heavily enforced and nobody cares if you speed, then I suggest you turn off the PIAAs while you drive 80 mph. Use common sense and act according to "what flies" in your area.

No, he showed me a bunch of mumbo-jumbo about lights. Find where in the STATE STATUTE book that says I can't use them and I won't.

I believe he was trying to get out of another speeding ticket. If you keep getting caught, then slow down. Duh.

Correct - the pedestrians shoudln't be there. But sometimes they are. As for animals, well, they can't read. And how many times have you seen a vehicle at the last instant on the side of the road because the moron didn't turn on his 4-way flashers or leave his lights on?

If it's so bad here, then maybe you should consider moving to Europe.

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Reply to
swatcop

And so it panned out that the following script was sculpted by none other than Snow:

FMVSS 108 = CMVSS 108 (well almost - hafta add that little quantifier to help protect myself from DS's Xhairs! ;)

Reply to
E.R.

Didn't last long....

Why don't we just make reasonable laws? Nahh... too simple. Then cops couldn't hassle people on demand, they couldn't find the 'terrorists' or investigate people that didn't look 'right'. You avoid these hard topics for a cheap quick insult.

No, he showed you federal vehicle lighting rules that are copied or refered to by the various states.

For instance, IL: (625 ILCS 5/12-201) (d) A person shall install only head lamps that satisfy United States Department of Transportation regulations and show white light, including that emitted by HID lamps, or light of a yellow or amber tint for use by a motor vehicle.

The boy has gotten one speeding ticket... the one he was discussing.

I don't drive on the shoulder. And I can see them in time even if they have all lamps off. It's not a superhuman feat, it's called paying attention. Even when it's dark and the interstate unlit, the headlamps of vehicles in front of me will have light reflect off the lamp lenses of the vehicle on the shoulder.

The last time I got close to being surprised was a tow truck on the side of the road blinding me with some rather powerful lamps. He could have been seriously hurt had I not assumed that someone might step out of the glare field and into my path. But see, I *expected* that something like that may happen.

Anyhow, soon you'll be discusing klingon birds of prey decloaking.

The love-it-or-leave-it. Another lame non-arguement.

Reply to
Brent P

And so it panned out that the following script was sculpted by none other than swatcop:

Some of us might do precisely that if they just fix their darn politics and get the house in order (there are these things called "democracy" and "rule of law" that they're still slowly learning about). Of course, I don't really know if Brent has the requisite wine red "communist" colour passport for moving to Europe permanently, though the nice blue NA passports can take you quite a long way regardless.

Anyway, until more serious reforms happen that side of the pond, NA remains the better bet as a place to live imo, though it's far from perfect (especially if you're a foreigner!).

Reply to
E.R.

Well, don't start your original reply post with an attitude, we'll get along much better.

As I originally stated, I don't make the laws, I enforce them. Luckily for the motoring public I use common sense when deciding whether or not I'll issue a citation for the violations that I see. I give a lot of verbal warnings, especially for stuff that I think is stupid (I won't pull someone over for something stupid, but if I notice a "stupid" violation I'll address it with them since I already have them pulled over).

That's fantastic. Break out the Florida State Statute book and show it to me. If it's in MY "rule book," I'll consider enforcing it.

OK, and at what point did I mention anything about being an ogre and issuing citations for every speeder on the road? I was just using common sense - if you get caught and you don't want tickets, then slow down. Common sense.

Maybe so, but I've been on the scene of plenty of vehicle vs. pedestrian accidents where the pedestrian thought they had enough time to get across the road (even though they weren't supposed to be crossing that particular road on foot). Too bad for them that they mis-judged the speed of the car that was going 80+ mph and couldn't stop.

Sorry, I'm not a "Trekkie." Again, I try to use good ole' common sense.

challenged"

If you don't want an invitation to go somewhere else, then don't compare this country to others that "do it better." We may not be perfect (far from it), but I've defended this country from both foreign and domestic threats and will continue to do so because I believe that we are the best. About the "glare" comment, I apologize. It was uncalled for.

"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed."

Reply to
swatcop

Aren't the Micro DEs (or at least a minor variation thereof...like same lamp unit but different mounting of course) what is essentially mounted in the stock headlamp units on fog-equipped A4 Jettas and GTIs?

Reply to
Matt B.

Yep

DS

Reply to
Daniel Stern Lighting

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