Opinion Wanted about the values of the 1-3 series VWs.

no, not really. I would rather have a 1st series Scirocco than most new cars, but I'm weird.

nate

I like Sciroccos too, but my choice is the MK1 (A1) VW Rabbit Cabriolet Convertibles, and I've already restored one - a 1988 model with 270,000 miles on it. It runs like a clock (after restoration) and is the most fun car I've ever had. One word of caution, if you decide to buy one of these old cars (Scirocco, Cabbie, or whatever), make sure it's not a rust bucket because then it would be futile to try and restore. I bought mine in Atlanta, where salted roads don't exist, and it didn't have a speck of rust on it anywhere.

I don't really think it would be a viable business. I just don't see the values going up enough to make it worthwhile... if you buy a decent but rough car for $1K, put $3K into it, and sell it for $4K you have spent a lot of time and haven't made any money.

nate

n> I didn't mean to leave out Sciroccos, or Vanagons , or Cabriolets. I just

I had a big long reply written up but I apparently it didn't make it to the news server. Anyway, what Nate said. Cool idea, but not a money maker.

"none2u" wrote

Sure, if you had the capital to set up a shop to work rapidly and arrangements with outside services needed.

The car if quality restored would have to sell from 8 to 12K$ or more but much cheaper than a new car. You would need a lot of service space to do it fast and at least 10 to 15 employees. To disassemble, reassemble, paint, carpet and install rebuilt engines using the used but warranted transmission.

You could also take an existing owner with a vintage VW and for say XGrand$ completely restored their car along with selling your own. You would be buying parts in bulk like rebuilt engines, upholstery and/or using reupholsterers - replacing all movable parts as practicle on drive train and steering. The racks are inexpensive - power racks could be reused but warranted. You would also need a very good detailer to make sure the car is in exactly rebuilt condition before you could command a respectable price. Good auto painters. Count on buying lots of parts in bulk.

Harry

I for one would love to see fully restored older VWs being sold with 1 year warranties. The problem is making money. Nobody's going to pay more than a few grand for a car that's 10-20 years old, even if it has been fully restored, and fully restoring a car is going to cost a few grand (unless you can hire monkeys for mechanics and steal car parts at night).

Now when I say "fully restored" I mean all the interior is nice and not faded, all the little bits work (mirror adjusters, vents, what-have-you), the exterior paint and body are shiny and straight, the engine has new rings+bearings+valves, new waterpump+alternator+motormounts, new clutch+PP, new shifter bushings, new driveshaft (boots), new shocks+struts, new catback exhaust, new brake pads/shoes+rotors/drums, new headlights, perfect windshield.... I just don't think that you can get more out of it than you put into it.

Most people (not us reasonable VW owners) want a new car or the newest car they can('t) afford, so they can keep up with the Joneses. The more economy minded folks are already driving used VWs. You might persuade a few of them to upgrade to a restored car... maybe get them to trade in their used VW as a core to knock some of the price off the restored vehicle. I personally would go for that, trading in my '88 Fox plus maybe $2,000 tops on a restored A1 or A2 Jetta.

In short I love the idea but you'd have to be a better businessman than I to turn a profit (not that I'm a good businessman ;) ).

I think that, while you'd have a base of VW fanatics that might LOVE your work (or your business), overall you would find that most people wouldn't pay much more than the blue book value for those vehicles. My guess is that the blue book wouldn't even begin to cover restoration on most of these beauties...

So my overall opinion is that there is not enough (or more accurately - enough of a concentration) of a customer base for this to work as a full time business.

~Mister.Lull

"Mister.Lull" wrote

The Blue Book covers used cars. The rebuilt motor alone cost more than some Blue Book listings though as one with another opinion, yours may have some validity.

They did this before on air cooled vws I might ad. I have seen ads in the past for a completely rebuilt Beetle (air cooled) for around 10,000. So this concept is not new with VWs in general.

The success on water cooled with this would depend on the quality of the rebuild not the cost, in my view. Even a VW dealer could hypothetically floorplan rebuilt water cooleds at arount 12 to 15 K - at first - it may appear expensive but compared to new VWs and sticker shock - a cheap alternative and safer than a used car with better warranty. The rebuilts could be financed likewise.

I would dare say today with fuel prices a perfectly rebuilt vintage Diesel Rabbit completely restored with new interior, rebuilt engine, beautifly painted, transmission with all the moving parts replaced or tested, looking new could bring in 12 to 15K. Would 'Joe-Average' pay this? Probably not. But there are a lot of people with the credit line/money and the disposition to buy a unique vehicle.

The problem would be that it would be a large undertaking that would require a serious amount of capital probably running at a loss for a while. The capital investment would be the most problem for the person with the organization skills to partake.

Trivia note about Diesel Rabbits: working at a dealership chatting with the old guys who were there, Diesel Rabblts were on a waiting list during the

70s fuel crisis and when fuel prices soared. "Everyone came in the dealership "Diesel Rabbit Diesel Rabbit Diesel Rabbit?" and everyone was sick of hearing it"

Some were on a waiting list for months and sold at list price plus packed-on. They did not want to pay it? "Good bye".

With the fuel prices today probably all the water cooled Diesels are *hot*. One could probably do a business just rebuilding VW Diesels of all vintages.

Harry

I think that, while you'd have a base of VW fanatics that might LOVE your work (or your business), overall you would find that most people wouldn't pay much more than the blue book value for those vehicles. My guess is that the blue book wouldn't even begin to cover restoration on most of these beauties...

So my overall opinion is that there is not enough (or more accurately - enough of a concentration) of a customer base for this to work as a full time business.

~Mister.Lull

"Mister.Lull" wrote

I beg to differ (agreeably) That is why there are pro auto salespeople (leaving the clowns out) to show *why* it is way above Blue Book to the interested couple or person and what was done. That is the task of the salesperson. I sold new VWs for years (many hundreds) and selling a completely rebuilt VW would not be a hard task to those with the means, especially viewing new prices.

Somebody would buy it sold by a competant salesperson.

If it was Blue Book (in a simile) you could buy it and just take the motor out and sell the rebuilt motor for as much, imho.

Harry

I had a big long reply written up but I apparently it didn't make it to the news server. Anyway, what Nate said. Cool idea, but not a money maker.