I previously owned a 1979 VW Rabbit Diesel that gave me several years of great performance that I only sold because I lived in the snow belt of upstate NY, and the body rusted out. I only had to change the oil and clean the valves to keep it running, and I sold it with 210,000 miles on it, so it could have lasted for another 200,000 miles in my opinion, if I lived in an area without snow and the use of winter road salt.
Please tell me about the 2005 Golf TDI. Is it as good or better than my old Diesel Rabbit?
A lot more fancy electronics than your old car, plummetting resale value since the 2005 Golf is the last model of the 4th-generation Golf line, an engine that requires special oil that costs $5+/quart (VW 505.01-spec), etc.
Your past experience shows that VW Diesels have delivered you great value. Why don't you buy a 1999, or 2000 used with 100k miles on it, for substantially less than a brand new one would cost, and drive it? Its value won't plummet, the 1999/2000s are identical to the 2005's with the exception of the CD player, and it uses the slightly older style engine which doesn't need exotic oils and is a bit more tolerant of the diesel fuel sold in America.
You still need the proper spec oil in a 1999.5 and up non-pumpe duese engine... and it's not that much cheaper then the oil for the PD's.
I'd take the extra performance of a PD engine for the couple bucks you pay extra for the oil change.... say 3 changes a year... maybe 15 bucks more... big deal, if you can't afford 15 bucks you can't afford the car anyways.
Later models are better then the 1999/2000's the timing belt change cycle is far longer, they're also quieter and more peppy - and when you buy new you know everything about the car and can maintain it right from the start, not having to fix someone elses mess.
I'd actually vote for buying an '02 or '03. There is more of a difference between the years than just the stereo (which, IMHO, is nicer in the later models). VW worked out a fair number of -- um, bugs -- through the years. On the later models, the timing belt is good for 80,000-100,000 miles depending on whether you get the automatic or the stick (respectively) -- you can't be sure of that on a '99.5-'00, though you can retro-fit. The center-rear seat belt no longer gets itself stuck. The window clips in most of the '03s are made of metal, not plastic (which often died and let your windows fall into the doors, usually at inopportune times). The cruise control comes with an indicator light. The cupholder actually holds cups. The power door locks no longer sound like gunshots when they lock. The fabric upholstery is not so much of a stain magnet (though the gray in my '03 still does a passable impression).
The later models included an anti-theft immobilizer in the security system. Some models come with a center armrest. Going later gives one the option of buying a Wagon, though they're pretty popular and they go for good money. The '04-05s have some more chrome trim and do have an extra 15 hp, but they do cost the hassle of finding the oil the PD engine requires and you're placing a bit of a bet that VW got it right on the engine and hasn't done anything that will start showing up in 50,000-60,000 miles. Personally, as an owner of nothing but VWs over the last 20 years, I'm not that optimistic.
To the OP: a new TDI will be better _and_ worse than your old Rabbit Diesel.
The TDI is faster, more powerful, smoother, and quieter. It produces far less smoke and smell. The car comes with safety options VW didn't even dream of back then. I've seen Golf and Jetta TDIs that took some pretty nasty hits, leaving their occupants not injured, merely shaken. The cars come with "power-everything" and a lot of neat touches, like a sun visor over the rear-view mirror and delayed-shutoff interior lights. The car is warranted for 12 years against rust-through. They're nice cars -- and I think they're a good value even if they do cost more than their (non-diesel) competition.
But these are far more complex beasts than your '79 Rabbit. There are more fiddly electronic bits, and electronics is not a strong point for German manufacturers in general (VW in particular). My opinion (having owned an '84 Rabbit GTI) is that the new cars are significantly softer-riding and the handling less taut. This can be fixed after-market -- but you didn't have to do that in the past. While my TDI is more comfortable than my previous VWs and still a good drive, I'd be hard-pressed to say it's more fun to drive.
Finally, I think a lot depends on what you've been driving between then and now. If you've been driving Japanese "transpods," you may not care for the amount of owner intervention that current VWs seem to require. OTOH, if the prospect of driving something different is worth learning more about your car or possibly even fixing the little things yourself, then I would go for it.
Yah the newer ones are a better buy, if not just for the fact they are newer.
I have never even noticed that my locks (1999.5 Golf) were louder then my friends 2004 Jetta until now... wow, really loud in comparison.
Stereo better in newer models?? Well... not really, about the same really - my "Premium IV" with indash CD (add-in) and changer sounds better then said friends old 2003 Golf's new style radio did, and about the same as his Jetta does now... His Golf may have had a bad speaker or something tho, there wasn't much bass from that car, his Jetta has the same deck and speakers tho (unless there was an update from 03 to 04, all looks the same tho), so it doesn't make sense.
Cruise control light..... Not an issue..... seat belt light with warning chime every 10 seconds.... PISSOFF, yes we ride with the belts on when the car is in motion, but it never shuts off just sitting in the car, chilling, drinking a coffee or talking before work starts.
99.5's came with immobilizer... Mine seems to have it... Could have been a GLS/Lux pacakge feature then, tho.
10hp boost in the PD motors, not 15hp
Engine problems in 50-60K Miles... not likely, they fixed the MAF sensor issues on the older cars. Older cars have pretty much all been retrofited with metal window winders, the plastic ones snapped off a few years ago, 7 year warranty on both parts mentioned now.
German electronics/electrics, not good?.... Well I don't know about that, I use German electrical and electronics stuff all the time at work, no probs (actually we find the Japanese stuff more confusing to use)... Never had electrical issues with our VW's or Volvo's and they use pretty much all German electrics (Bosch). Japanese stuff is all old and proven technology while German cars have "interesting" approaches to easy problems, which is why sometimes things don't always work... again, never had an issue yet - lights burn out on every car... water leaking into the fuse panel and creating problems (1991 Golf) isn't an electrical problem, it's a design problem :-).
Maybe; I know for sure my '99.5 GL did _not_ have an immmobilizer.
My (early) '03 had plastic window clips, well after those parts should have taken a dirt nap. And while an extended warranty is nice, the fact that VW will fix it for free (once you schedule service at their convenience) for seven years is not much of a consolation. I'd rather not have the problem to start with.
Even in Germany, Mercedes is in trouble because of the quality of their electronics. People on this forum (and others, like VWVortex and Fred's TDI Page) complain about electronics/electrics all the time -- wonky alarm systems, bad door-sensor switches, even the power window problem (which technically is a hardware problem but doesn't happen on the manual-wind windows).
Granted, these forums tend to attract those who are having problems and are willing to complain or look for help in fixing the problems themselves, but I don't think it's a huge secret that the electrical systems in German cars -- in general -- is not up to the reliability of Japanese or even American cars.
Your final sentence reminds me of one thing about VW that really sticks in my craw: their inability and/or lack of interest in fixing long-term problems. I owned an A1 and an A2. Both of them had the same crappy exterior door handles that failed frequently for lack of use or lubrication. That's ten years that VW was using parts which were bad by design or manufacture. Ten years! Your water-on-the-fuse-panel problem was an issue on my '84 Rabbit/Golf. Seven years (actually more like ten there, too, since the A2s were sold until '93 in the U.S.) with a design that permitted water to enter the fuse panel. My '03, with its plastic window clips ... they should have binned those clips a long time ago. They already were covering them under an extended warranty.
What is it about VW's manufacturing or management that makes it worth keeping bad designs (or at least to not bother coming up with workarounds) for years, or to use parts that they _know_ are substandard -- even if it costs them in customer goodwill, bad publicity, and warranty work? It just doesn't make sense to me.
VW has to know that they have a serious perception problem, at least in the U.S. My '03 has been fairly trouble-free, and your TDI has, also. But others have not been so fortunate. And, unfortunately, even if the perception is way worse than the reality, it is one that VW can ill afford, especially if they want to make a serious run up-market.
I have owned two A1s for 10 yearsand never had a problem with the exteriour door handles. I took the door handles off the 80 when I totalled it and put them on the 84. I sold the 84 last year. The 84 was purchased from a junkyard stripped and no keys which was why I swapped handles.
Now my 2003 needs a new clutch. First vehicle I have had in 28 years of driving where the clutch has needed to be replaced when the clutch had less than 150,000 miles on it. All of my vehicles except for a winter beater have had clutches.
Quality has been ok with the 2003 but I did have a few warranty items. Clutch started fail>>
No comment on door handles, ours were never a problem with our 91, and a friends 90 Jetta was fine, though his new (to him) 91 Jetta has had door handle problems... I have yanked on those handles when my doors froze in the winter numerous times and they held, while his fall off at random when someone opens a freshly lubricated door on a summers day.
The problem with Mercedes/BMW/Audi/VW etc, German car makers... It isn't that they can't make a good electrical system - from my readings and talking to people in the automotive industry is that they just try too hard. They come up with "because we can" solutions to problems, not necessarily what should be done according to methodology such as the KISS (keep is simple, stupid)... They put in numerous multiplex cables/bus system that interface from computer to computer or from computer to device, things report back to each other etc... etc... etc.... overly complicated, tho it looks all well and good on paper - too bad these complicated electronics have to live in a world of -40°C to +40°C in some parts of the world tho... I guess they don't take into account those little things like using a robust switch over a tinny little microswitch would actually work better after 5-10 years.
Since I haven't had major problems with my cars electrics (and as an electrician/industrial electronics/controls guy, deeming the circuitry I can see to look solid and good/properly designed) I'll support them that they aren't too bad - I've never had a Japanese/American car before, only German and Swedish, so I won't comment, but many friends have American/Japanese.... and I find people with American cars have way more problems then I have with my VW, except when they goto repair 4 problems, it equals my one problem in cost :-). Friends who drive Japanese seem happy with their choice, no major issues from what I have heard, electrically anyways.... Tho talking to people with Korean cars, I would never touch one - problems everywhere with electrics - flickering gauge readouts, faulty cruise control, burning out lights all the time, miswired stereo speakers.
I've read those German industrial reports that show Mercedes quality is tanking too... really sad to see that happen, they are all suffering from quality issues tho, because they seem to have to cut parts costs to lower the price of their over-over engineered cars - I also read something about VW realizing this problem, and they are going back to solving problems the proper way, and not falling into the trap of taking unique solutions to problems.
About the water leakage in my 91 - We replaced the windsheild, and there was rust around the corver of it, on the fusebox side... I'm thinking it got in thru there, as it was water tight up till then - thru all the water leaking on it, the circuits held up - had to seal the windsheild wiper relay with silicone glue, but other then that the car was unaffected.
About others being not so fortunate - my boss is one of these people, his
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