Some good news about the new Jetta

Wonder if it is a good candidate for an EV conversion?

EV?

I assume that's for the engine?

Electric vehicle, most likely. Doesn't VW have a hybrid sedan in the works, considering the impressive performance of the Accord Hybrid and the popularity of the Toyota Prius?

drool drool drool

I think they are toying with a hybrid diesel engine...

EV = Electric Vehicle, and preferably a plug-in EV, not a hybrid.

Why is plug-in better? Seems hybrid is a great interim solution to the energy/pollution problem, without the need for additional infrastructure. Smaller gasoline engines supplemented with electric boost, regenerative braking, etc. And Honda's hybrid Accord is the fastest Accord. Why would VW want to introduce a pure electric Jetta when the competition (and most car buyers) have decided that hybrid is better?

Don't believe the automobile industry hype regarding the claim that "most car buyers have decided that (the) hybrid is better" than the EVs. The industry, after being leaned on by petroleum interests and our glorious US government, dropped all US EVs around 2002. This was in spite of the fact that many buyers had expressed a desire for such vehicles, wanted to buy them, and had placed orders. Most of the industry never offered any EVs for sale, other than golf carts or NEVs (very lightweight neighborhood EVs incapable of speeds exceeding 25 MPH). Nearly all of them were leased. When the industry got leaned on, EVERY manufacturer of leased EVs (GM, Ford, Toyota, etc.) recalled these vehicles from the leases, refused to sell them to the individuals leasing them, and GM even went as far as to actually destroy all of their EVs. This has been widely reported, and if you do a quick Google search, you will see the reports and the photographs of the destroyed vehicles.

So the EV technology has existed for quite some time, and such vehicles have been successfully mass-produced. Take a look at the specifications of the

2002 Toyota RAV4 EV, which is an SUV. Quoting Toyota, "With the looks and style of our popular SUV, the RAV4 EV gives your company a roomy, practical vehicle with a 827-lb. payload and over 125 miles on one charge. Charge it overnight and your employees may forget they're driving an electric vehicle. And with standard ABS, cassette stereo, air conditioning and a 78-mph top speed, it's understandable how they might. But with lower overhead costs and government incentives, you'll never forget." At least, for a short time anyway, people were able to actually PURCHASE the RAV4 EV, and the government provided incentives.

By the way, the Toyota Prius hybrid is undergoing research by a private group (not Toyota) in California to make it a plug-in hybrid. Basically it involves adding a second battery pack and a redesigned power management system. With that capability, the Prius will be able to use all-electric mode for local trips (not burning an ounce of gasoline), then recharge at home overnight - yet still be able to make long distance trips using the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine).

While it is true that no mass-produced EV can go 500 miles (yet) between charges, the technology is certainly not decades away. The fossil fuel people like to foster on everyone's thinking precisely what you just said (" we actually create more pollution making the power to charge pure electrics then it does to run gasoline or diesel motors to make the same power").

Don't fall for that myth. It is just not true. The California Air Quality Management Districts and the California Energy Commission have both made studies which show that coal-fired electric power plants operate at efficiencies three times that of cars with gasoline engines. Transportation via internal combustion engines that use gas and oil is responsible for more than 17 percent of the greenhouse gas emissions on the planet. In industrialized countries, cars spew 75 percent of carbon monoxide emissions,

48 percent of nitrogen oxide (smog) and 40 percent of hydrocarbon pollutants into the atmosphere. Mile for mile, electric vehicles travel with one-half the resource depletion and one-fifteenth the air pollution.

Nobody enjoys a good conspiracy theory more than me, especially after a few beers, so I'd never doubt that oil and other powerful interests have a hand in holding back the commercialization of EV technology. Unfortunately, these powerful interests also control our mass media, the same mass media that decides for Americans what they believe. We've been told that our only reasonable alternative to automotive gasoline engines are hybrids, and oh yeah, we believe it. They're certainly better than those dirty, stinking, gutless diesels right? Never mind that modern automotive diesels are none of these things.

VW operates in the real world, and in the real world, they'd like to see their market share in the U.S. go up, rather than down. This means that they need to go with the flow and offer a hybrid, not a pure EV.

It's not better. It's different. GM lost *TONS* of money with their EV1. They had no problem selling them because they subsidized the cost, and set up free fueling stations. Selling isn't even a good term, they had no problem leasing them, because they weren't willing to sell them.

Of course it has... Golf carts are often EV. Its nothing new. Who said it was? The problem is the batteries.

I think the term "successful" is highly subjective. How many of them did they actually sell? How many EVs are still on the road?

So what you are saying is that compared to a Geo Metro (at half the price or less), you have a third the range (and by the way, from what I can tell, even EV proponents admit that 125 miles is... optimistic), and 80% of the top speed. Do you have to go to a special refueling station? It sure takes a long time to refuel compared to the Geo which probably takes 5 minutes.

EVs may be reasonable for urban driving, but I wouldn't want to get on the highway in one and I certainly wouldn't want to drive any significant distance from home. Why you need an SUV for something that literally can only be used for urban driving is beyond me, but oh well... And an EV is going to be a hard sell for a car that costs twice what a cheap economy car costs and offers substantially lower performance and can't be used to haul anything or go any significant distance.

And how much space (and weight) does this "second battery" take up? Unfortunately, batteries just can't store energy very densely (either in volume or weight) compared to fossil fuels.

dan

All I can say is, look it up. Perhaps then you won't be so sure.

Although the media (thank God for the media) is the popular scapegoat for just about everything these days, actually they are not commenting one way or the other on the subject of EVs and hybrids. Almost all of the EV/hybrid development and testing is being conducted and reported on the internet through groups of private enthusiasts interested in promoting a better way. These individuals are providing their own funding.

For an example, go to

which is a group of private individuals working on the development of an all-electric mode for the Toyota Prius hybrid.

I couldn't disagree more. Every time I turn on the television or open one of the popular automotive rags (Car & Driver, Motor Trend, Road & Track), I see someone touting hybrid cars, or talking about how this or that celebrity drives a Prius. What does actor Ed Begley Jr. drive? A Prius. What does Cameron Diaz drive? A Prius. Here's an excerpt: "She's beautiful, funny and environmentally friendly. What more could you ask for in a Hollywood superstar? Cameron Diaz, who along with fellow starlet Gwyneth Paltrow has recorded numerous public service announcements for the conservation group, Act Green, puts action behind her words with the purchase of a 2002 Toyota Prius." I just saw a news spot where the star of a popular sitcom was one of the first people on the waiting list for the hybrid Toyota RX. I see almost nothing about pure EVs anymore. This is where most Americans get their news; you don't think this constitutes "commenting" on the subject of EVs vs. hybrids?

And as for using the media as a scapegoat for just about everything these days, I think these criticisms are misdirected. By now we should all expect the media to twist the news for the purposes of marketing. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. The real culprit is the majority of Americans that unquestioningly believe all the crap they're being fed.

I'm not talking about the "geek" press here. I'm talking about the popular media that molds and shapes most Americans' view of the world and in most cases is nothing more than thinly veiled advertising. Since just about every "typical" American checks out the reviews in automotive rags when they are in the market for a new car, you can bet their getting the "right" message regarding hybrids vs. EVs.

Don't get me wrong, it's optimistic, forward-thinking people like you that eventually change the world for the better. It's just going to be a long, tough fight.

Well, I agree with you on at least one thing "The real culprit is the majority of Americans that unquestioningly believe all the crap they're being fed." But it is not the media (unless you count Fox News) that is misleading the American public, it is Washington.

The battery thing is pretty much true - you have to remember this batter has to be AFFORDABLE (this is the key) reliable enough for a longer service life then the car itself - be able to recharge in under, i'd say 10 mintures from flat (who wants to do a road trip and have to spend the night because your car needs a full recharge, oven tho the day is only 1/2 done)... and around a 700kms range.

Look what up? That EVs have limited range, payload, and performance? What's to look up? Until a battery technology is available that allows an EV to go 400 miles (highway) between charges, can last 200,000 miles, and doesn't reduce payload capacity, I ain't interested.

-- Mike Smith

Are you really informed, or is that just an opinion?