Starting problems and bad performance with cold engine

Passat B5 1999 with 2,3 V5 (AGZ engine), 100000 km/62500 miles. Motronic M3.8.2 injection.

Have had intermittent problems during last year with very bad performance during acceleration first 2-3 mins when cold started, but not every cold start.

Replaced O2 sensor 6 months ago, slightly better but problem still there. Mechanic suggested trying replacing MAF sensor too, but hadn't anyone available.

Now: Needs 4-5 tries when starting cold, then starts reluctantly. Really bad performance first 2-3 mins, then ok but still not really good.

"Bad performance" means accelerator works like inverted. That is, when I press the accelerator on 2nd gear, the power decreases. When I release the accelerator, (some) power gets back.

The problem basically shows only with cold engine.

Gets these two faults now and then:

00561 - Mixture Adaptation 12-00 - Adaptation Limit (Mul) Exceeded

00525 - Oxygen Sensor (G39)

27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

00561 has not returned for a couple of days, 00525 returns more often.

In the "readiness" window everything usually looks ok except the last one, catalytic something...

I have tried cleaning the MAF with electronics cleaner, containing Isopropanol and CFC22. I have been reading about people using carb cleaner and other stuff, I'm not sure what chemicals I "dare" to try. A problem with my type of MAF sensor is that I can't see the platinum wire, so I don't see the effect of the cleaner, I'm just spraying the cleaner through the "intake".

Tried disconnecting the MAF, two starting attempts failed. Then I reconnected the MAF, and it started rightaway!

Repeated next day (cold engine again) this time one failed attempt with MAF disconnected, 2nd attempt with MAF connected, started!

But if I try with the MAF connected at 1st attempt, I need 4-5 attempts.

No error codes have returned for the last couple of sessions, but the catalytic... in the readyness window stills says error.

Does this make sense to anyone!?

Looking at the VAGCOM displays when running most things looks sane, including the two temperatures (coolant and, I suppose, intake air) and air flow ranges between 3 and 30 g/s.

The O2 value is ± 25%, but when idling it's ± maybe 2% only.

The ignition timing is about -30 degrees, seems like some misinterpretation by the program?

So, any suggestions are welcome. I have some VAG logs too.

Should I be looking for a new MAFS? Or should I be looking for something else? Could a bad MAFS really make the engine that hard to start only when cold? To me it seems like something else, maybe something with the fuel pressure?

Could the new O2 sensor have gone bad in just 6 months? Or is this an indication of something else?

Thanks for any input, Jonatan Lindell

Reply to
jonte
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Very interesting, I stumbled across this posting totally by chance while I was searching the web for "hard / cold / overnight start" problems and saw this one. I have had exactaly the same symptoms with my 1993 TBI fuel injected 5.7 litre GMC. With one exception...I've been disconnecting and re-connecting the coolant temp sensor, (located near my thermostat housing). I'll connect it to start the engine, as the temp. starts to rise, (100 degrees or so), the idle starts to get weird, so I disconnect the sensor, the idle smooths out and at about 140 degrees I can drive with no further problems until the next morning. I have not considered my MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR, but I am considering my ignition coil. I have replaced the O2 sensor, coolant sensor, knock sensor, cap/rotor/plugs, but not the plug wires, ignition coil or any of my air flow items. Just thought I would respond to your post, these kind of problems can be very frustrating.

Reply to
NHRA

Very interesting, I stumbled across this posting totally by chance while I was searching the web for "hard / cold / overnight start" problems and saw this one. I have had exactaly the same symptoms with my 1993 TBI fuel injected 5.7 litre GMC. With one exception...I've been disconnecting and re-connecting the coolant temp sensor, (located near my thermostat housing). I'll connect it to start the engine, as the temp. starts to rise, (100 degrees or so), the idle starts to get weird, so I disconnect the sensor, the idle smooths out and at about 140 degrees I can drive with no further problems until the next morning. I have not considered my MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR, but I am considering my ignition coil. I have replaced the O2 sensor, coolant sensor, knock sensor, cap/rotor/plugs, but not the plug wires, ignition coil or any of my air flow items. Just thought I would respond to your post, these kind of problems can be very frustrating.

Reply to
NHRA

I had a similar problem on my seat toledo v5 (150bhp) and the cure was to replace the air mass meter in the intake hose, between the manifold and the air filter.

hope this helps oli (UK)

Reply to
music43

I had a simila problem with my Seat Toledo V5 (150bhp) and the cure was to replace the air mass meter on the air intake duct (between the intake manifold and the air filter)

I hope this is of help

oli UK

Reply to
music43

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