TDI

It's a fuel quality issue, burn the older hogher sulfer content fuel and you mess up the exhaust system. Since that would be a warranty issue they have been reluctant to bring in the new TDi design until the fuel situation here has 'settled' down. I think sometime late this spring/summer or at the beginning of the next model year will see a Jetta TDi.

fundamentalism, fundamentally wrong.

Actually the ULSF has been here for over a year. It's a EPA approval thing on the eura (sp?)...

So is that why Diesel is over $4/Gal. out here in California? Seems they don't want to let anything in that would reduce the cost/mile. I'm staring to understand how the Europeans feel. It's hard to fathom. I've got a friend down the road that makes his own biodiesel and his coop members pay 70cents/gallon? That covers all his equipment expenses too?

You'd think a factory would be even more efficient.

Diesel is $4 a gallon in Georgia. I have in the past payed less for diesel than gas. I have read that a fair amount of refined fuels are imported. That can't help the price.

I talked to a commercial biodiesel producer last October. He said that the feedstock price follows the oil prices. If your co-op is collecting its own waste vegetable oil then it may be paying a lot less than a commercial biodiesel producer is.

The main reason Diesel is over $4 per gallon here in Calif. is there's a short supply of refining capacity... When all the mergers took place, a refinery in San Bernardino was closed that produced 6% of all the diesel produced in the state. The closure produced a 3% shortfall for the state and I remember the state legislators petitioning the oil company (I forgot which one it was) to sell it. It wasn't in their interest to do so but they finally consented with a key component removed. It finally did reopen with Flying J as the new owner. Nobody will build/improve refining capacity here (or anywhere, for that matter). Refining bottlenecks are where all the profit lay. I remember an interview with a Saudi oil minister where the interviewer asked if they would turn up the tap to lower oil prices. He said, more or less, they could pump till the cows came home, but it wouldn't help...your problem is refining capacity. I've never heard a word from him since.

I may have double posted this by mistake, sorry!

Someone is trying to build a new refinery in Arizona:

Lynn

The United States operates at about 105% of its refining capacity for all fractions of fuel. Exceptions are specific to the east coast where the heavy/sour crude refineries are most prevalent - and middle- eastern crude is mostly heavy/sour. This capacity is pretty severely limited and isn't going to get any better due to space, cost and environmental concerns and requirements. Middle-eastern crude is only about 22% of all oil used in the US. Most of "our" oil comes from Canada and Mexico, and home grown (~29% of total consumed).

What this means is that we import (typically) between 5% and 7% of our petroleum products as already-refined materials. This is Part A.

The United States, on average, consumes 25% of the world's total energy production of all types - fossil, wind, solar, nuclear, other on an annual basis. The United States has approximately 5% of the world's total population. This is Part B.

The largest growing populations on earth at present (not by percentage, but by actual numbers) are in China and India. These two are also amongst the fastest growing economies. This is Part C.

China and India have, between them, approximately 35% of the world's total population and consume approximately 20% of the world's total energy resources as noted above. This is Part D.

So, if China and India were to consume resources as does the US at present, they would consume 175% of the world's total energy resources. India presently exports very large amounts of gasoline to the US. They are beginning to divert that flow to internal consumption. China and India want to be just like us. And we are sending them vast quantities of our dollars to that they can become so.

The Saudis are sitting on 25% of the world's proven reserves. Combine Iraq and Kuwait, that goes to 45%. *MOST* of the oil they sell does NOT go to the United States, but to China, Japan, the Pacific Rim and Europe. A small amount (22% overall from the Middle East) goes to the US. By the way, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Sudan and Yemen are all very nearly out of oil at this point - but not of natural gas. They are gradually shifting their economies from resource-dependent to tourism and business-dependent. The Pearl Roundabout in Manama 6 years ago vs. today alone is proof of that. Or any week's growth in Dubai or Abu Dhabi.

ANWR (Alaskan Wildlife Sanctuary unproven reserves) would cost between FIVE and TEN BILLION dollars and between five and seven years to exploit. The total anticipated reserves based on the most optimistic DOE figures would last the United States nineteen (19) months at present consumption. The United States sits on 5% of the world's total proven reserves within its territory or territorial waters.

Refinery capacity is the very least of our problems...

Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA

Proven reserves of oil. You forgot our proven reserves of natural gas (100 years at current usage rate) and coal (300 years at current rate). You also forgot the Oil Shale in the Rocky Mountains (estimated 1000 years of oil at current rate of usage of oil in USA). We just need to figure out how to extract that oil from the shale.

ANWR is just part of the answer to a large and complex problem. If we dont do it now then we will regret this in a couple of years (I can hardly wait to stand in line for gasoline again, 1873, 1975, 1979 and post-Rita were enough for me. Dont forgot the shallow water oil and gas in the shelves off the Florida and California coasts that is verboten from drilling for right now.

Then why is Diesel priced so high over gasoline right now ? Answer, there is a shortage of Diesel in the USA because the refineries had to make extra heating oil in January due to the extreme winter we had (global warming strikes again).

Lynn

Hmmm - I thought diesel cost more than gas because being less refined, it has more product left in it (since they take less out) ... so I'm getting more for my money!

(Yes, I'm just kidding.)

Um, with all due respect, piffle....

You don't read for content well, do you? If China or India outbid us for the feedstock, whether we are strapped for refinery capacity or not makes no difference - we will have nothing to feed them. As long as we send our dollars to China and India (along with our jobs), they

*WILL* be able to outbid us. As long as we send our dollars to Iraq in a pointless war while neglecting our children and their education at home we will not be able to compete for jobs on an international basis. As long as Sony can (and did) spend more money in real dollars doing R&D for their next *game* platform than the US Government spent on R&D NATIONWIDE in the same timer period, they will continue to eat our lunch, get a start on our breakfast and target our dinner.

At $9-$11/gallon, neither supply nor demand will be a problem. That gives you the shale, that gives you deep-steam and carbon sequestration extraction methods, that even gives you sulphur injection methods presently practiced in the Qatif & Hofuf oil fields in Saudi, that gives you coal distillation at a practical level...

Do you really want to be like China and compete with Eastern Europe, Northern Japan and Central India for the title of most polluted country on earth? Do you even begin to understand the implications of "global warming" as it actually happens? Extremes of weather are the _results_ of it. Areas get dry, areas get cold areas get hot - sadly - areas that were not that way for 10,000 years before. Global warming tends to be followed with an ice-age. Kudzu has reached nothern Maryland - it no longer winter-kills. Think about that as you bitch about a "record" winter - which it was not.

In general, I would prefer my three grand children to have something to enjoy in the future. Oil is far to valuable to burn - it is the primary feedstock for too many things for which there are NO alternatives -whereas there are many alternatives to consuming fossil fuel for mere heat.

BTW, the proven US natural gas reserves within our territorial limits are as you describe. However production costs for about 70% of those reserves exceeds $5/therm (CCF). That is to get it out of the ground, not to the end-user. It's there - but your life-style will change substantially before you can afford it.

As George Santayana wrote: Those who do not understand the past are condemned to repeat it. Go ahead and look for simplistic, feel-good solutions for complex, non-trivial problems. Keep that up and the Uniteds States will become a third-world nation (albeit a well-armed one) in short order.

Lastly, consider what would happen if the GCC & OPEC were to go off the dollar and price oil in Euros - as Kuwait, Iran, Bahrain and Dubai want to do right now. THINK on it for a few moments. The implications are mind-boggling.

Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA

What caused the Ice Age? What caused the warm up after the Ice Age?

I will not argue that the US spends way too many resources as an energy inefficient nation.

I think you might want to complain more about US stock investors that are more worried about short term profits instead of spending more on R&D. The federal government has a role of protecting our borders. I don't think R&D was in the Constitution.

As long as people continue to be stupid and not insulate their house properly (cheap fiberglass is a pretty lame insulator), not install energy efficient HVAC systems like geothermal, buy fuel inefficient vehicles, dry a mile to eat some crud at a fast food restaurant there is little hope. I hate the stupid comment of "We need tax breaks to encourage people to be energy efficient." That is about as stupid a comment as one could make. Choosing to be an eco-pig cost a person every month. Every time they pay their fuel bill, electric bill, gas bill, or propane bill.

Remember your prosperity does not come from Washington. Name a program Washington has done well. CPSC not so swell. EPA at least has reduced the number of flammable rivers. DOT has built some handy highways that allow for more urban sprawl which encouraged greater commuting distances. Bio fuels caused a significant increase in my dog food up

70% in less than a year.

So what does it matter what currency they use? I buy stuff in Euros now when I order from overseas. Sometimes in dollars. America is on its way to being a second tier country now. China and India are well on their way to being superpowers. Maybe not the military power of the US but certainly their populations will be more economically powerful as they become more capitalist.

We know how to extract oil from oil shale and I think at $100 a barrel it is profitable to do so. A Saudi minister rightly stated a week or two ago that the new base price for oil is around $55 to $60 a barrel. This is the price that matches the production costs of the alternatives. I'm sure most have already noticed B20 actually costs more then dino diesel even at today's price for oil. The truth is burning food for fuel has driven the price of soybeans and such to new record prices as well. Good news for farmers, but little real relief for us at the pump. Our best hope for a break in prices is in the next year or so as Brazil brings new production online and joins OPEC. A new memeber in the club will destablize various arrangements for a period of time and 'cheating' on production limits will likely increase. Hard to predict haow that dynamic will play out longer term though.

You could suck anwar dry in one year and it would not come close to reducing the US need for imported oil. Best thing we all could do is demand Congress increase the CAFE standard yet again. With high oil prices the other thing that is high importprices will start to work and we will drive less and combine 'chores' into one trip. Maybe even horror upon horror, improve our mass transit and take the bus or train on some trips. Imagine riding a bike to actually get somewhere instead of just for exercise.

Well refining is one issue, part of the price spread is due to the fact we import gasoline from Europe as they long ago converted about 50% of their car fleet to diesel. The result is they have spare gasoline capacity. Naturally the worlds thirstiest energy market is well prepared to take advantage of their excess capacity. The real problem for diesel in the US is that our refiners are cracking for maximum gasoline yield. The converters and catalists etc used in the process are very costly. As demand for diesel increases there is still a reluctance to not milk the 'gasoline' equipment for every penny possible before investing in the equipment to boost diesel yield. In time this will work itself out. But I would be surprised to see diesel prices below those of gasoline for a sustained period anytime in the next 10 or so years. There may well be short periods like last spring where a mild winter pushes distillate inventories up, but I'm sure every one noticed it only last a couple of months.

fundamentalism, fundamentally wrong.

Well you do get more energy in diesel then in gasoline, but of course that isn't the reason for the price spread. Wish it was. In fact one neat thing with the summer formulation the energy in diesel increases slightly so you get a bit more at the pump where as the gasoline crowd due to the increased evaporation and thermal expansion (this happens with diesel as well but the effect is smaller) they get less gasoline for the dollar in the summer then in winter all other factors being the same. Summer when you run the AC in your TDi also lines with when diesel is cheapest. A nice little irony.

fundamentalism, fundamentally wrong.

Sometime this year I believe VW will import TDIs in all 50 states with a new engine type that meets emissions standards across the country (read: California). In 21009, Honda plans to sell a diesel car here.

I think I will be dust in 21009 so I won't plan on buying a Honda diesel car! Geez they plan WAAAAAAAAAAY in advance! lol

I C ;-)