Just rescued this machine from the scrap yard as far as i can make out its missing its motor and the bracketry to bolt it down onto a block it also needs cats-claws......... what are these cats-claws what do they look like. and what is that funny arrangement with a spring on the business end . The model number is "AU"
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yes i know there is still a business that supplies spares for these machines ....but not for this one, as its over seventy years old. the guy that runs the "buma borring co" has no info on this machine .......he says that he knows that there was a model "AU" made but he has never seen one. any help much appreciated all the best.......mark
Couldn't agree more. Even if it were less rusty, the missing parts alone are enough to scrap it. It's only value IMO is if you can use the parts or material for other jobs.. Mike.
Why should a bit oif rust stop it working it all can be cleaned off the machine is not seized and traverces up and down without any problems. I have a motor for it just wanted to know what the missing parts look like so that I can make them for it I have all the nessisary tooling to be able to do this. thats why I was asking for help hoping that someone would send me some pictures of there machine . ive looked on the net and some dealers are selling these machines for over £1500 second hand........ one went on ebay for £400 a few weeeks ago so dont tell me that this machine should not be restored. my intentions are to get it fully functional , if I like it I will keep and use. and if ever im short of cash I can sell it. all the best......mark
I'm not saying that. Any obsolete and worn m/c can be restored if cost and time are not a consideration. Even though I have a very well equiped toolroom at my disposal, I would hesitate to to take on such a restoration.
The most obvious reason for you finding it in a scrapyard, is because due to wear it could no longer give an acceptable bore. Either diameter, finish, or both.
It might move freely, but just how much is that wear in the critical areas? Main shaft and bore, fingers and cutter holder, to name just 3. You could be looking at boring, and maybe sleeving the base casting. Chroming or metal spraying, and cylindricaly grinding the shaft to suit, remachining the fingers, and cutter slot, then making new o/s fingers and a cutter holder. The list goes on. If you haven't got the micrometer setting tool for the cutter holder, you'll either have to make one, or pick one up s/h. You could set the cutter without, but it would be a hassle, and prone to error. Those are a few of the reasons that would make me think more than twice before _I_ took such a job on.
As a labour of love, it could be an interesting project, and I wish you luck. All the same, unless you can do the machining above 'in house' it won't be cheap. Without the machining etc, IMO you'll be very lucky if you get it into a usable condition. IOW to bore to an acceptable degree of accuracy and finish.
If it were mine, I might e tempted to clean it up. Fit a motor, and get it working with what's there. A quick coat of paint and sell 'as seen'. Caveat emptor. :-) Good luck. Mike.
MIKE SAID "If it were mine, I might e tempted to clean it up. Fit a motor, and get it working with what's there. A quick coat of paint and sell 'as seen'. Caveat emptor. :-) Good luck."
ALL YOUR WORDS NOTED MIKE.... THANKYOU.
And the above may be my course......
Just like to add there isnt any wear on the machine. the lead screw is in excellent condition and the ram although pitted does not have any slop in it....in any position.....there is also a facilty on it to take up the wear...the main casting has a slot cut the lengh of it with allen bolts that are adjustable.........think its hardley been used and left outside for years. will give it a try on some old engines (not my stag engines) if i get it working ...then do some carefull measuring to see if its doing its job right. BTW whats the going rate for a rebore and hone for each pot these days.... maybe if it's cheap enough .....I wont even bother with this machine. STILL NEED SOME PICS OF THE MISSING PARTS Again thanks Mike all the best......mark
Although I've rebored several engines I've reconned, I've never had to pay for it. I had a unit next door to an engine reconditioning Co, who always let me borrow a Van Norman boring machine, and hones whenever I needed them. In return I used to hone their newly fitted small end bushes to size, and grind tappet shims etc. They had 3 Van Norman's and a Buma. The Buma was never used. That might tell you something. :-) Their price at the time for reboring only, it was over ten years ago, was only £4 a bore IIRC. Quite cheap at the time. That was for plus .020". If plus.040" was needed due to damage etc, I think they charged £6. Even with a perfect m/c, I can't see much profit in reboring for others. Dave Baker would know, but I wouldn't imagine there's that much demand for reboring only these days.
I dont think pics would help. Apart from the motor drive, the only critical part missing to enable it to bore, is the actual toolbit and holder. Obviously it's a slide fit in the rectangular hole at the end of the ram, as you call it. Probably very similar to that used on Van Norman machines, with a screw adjusted tungsten carbide, (or carbon tungstide as a mate of mine would say ) toolbit fitted at one end, and a dimple on one side at the other end. The holder fits into the hole, and AFAIR a internal spring loaded ball insert latches into the dimple, and retains it in position hard against the base or bottom of the hole. The hole at the end in your pic is used to push it out. The bore diameter is set by adjusting the overall length of the toolholder. I suggest you see if an engine reconditioner, or m/c tool dealer, will let you look at a Van Norman, or Buma toolholder. They're really so simple that I really doubt a pic would help. Mike.
My father sold trucks - Albions - for a living, and the small independant concern he worked for also specialised in engine overhaul in those days when it was common. The owner disliked boring bars saying that they couldn't do accurate enough work. They had a vertical boring machine. He also disliked Prince crank grinders for the same reason, preferring Churchill.
They certainly don't look like precision machines, but after seeing what they could do, and using one myself I found that that was not the case. With care they can bore a bore, true on diameter to within half a thou from top to bottom. Boring slightly u/s and finishing with a hone, can produce bores as accurate as the measuring equipment will allow. A finished bore, with a good cross hatched finish, that is within plus or minus a couple of tenths of a thou should be good enough to squash any doubts about their accuracy.
They had a vertical boring machine. He
I'm not familiar with Churchill crank grinders, but if it is an offset grinder I tend to agree. Offset grinders *should* grind b/e journals more accurately, but are not the easiest of machines to set up. Having said that, I have measured b/e journals produced by a Prince and found them to be perfectly round and true. Not using a micrometer, before anyone points out that micrometers can't be used to measure the roundness of diameters. :-) I think with both of these machines, as with most older m/c's, the results depend upon the skill of the operator. Any charlie can produce accurate work on a m/c in excellent condition. Skill is what is needed to produce the same result on a m/c that most would consider to be worn out. Unfortunately those skill are becoming more and more rare. Craftsmen engineers are a dying breed in our age of button pushing engineers. I know the reasons for that, but it still seems a shame that such skills are no longer taught, and places where they can be absorbed are rapidly disappearing. Mike.
YEP if reboring is that cheap its not even worth bothering with this machine. will tart it up and put it on ebay ...Septemberish should make me a lot more than the £4 I paid for it (40kg at 10p a kilo) lol again thankyou Mike all the best.....mark
There was an old boy in Coventry who ran a place called the Orchard Garage before, during and just after WW2 and he did engine reconditioning as well. Being a common sense sort of guy who always started from first principles, he reckoned that setting up crankshafts in the conventional offset type grinder took far too long, so he built himself one that would grind mains and journals without the crankshaft having to be re-positioned (like the Prince). It worked very successfully, so he built himself another one (this later one did not incorporate a bicycle wheel) and patented it. They were clumping great big machines, which was just as well because when the war came along he found that he was among the very few people in the country who were authorised by Rolls Royce to regrind Merlin crankshafts. The story goes that he sold the patent to Alfred Herbert, but they couldn't make the thing work properly. Something to do with not being willing to preload taper roller bearings I was told.
Ron Robinson
PS Dave - what are you doing in alt.autos.peugeot? Have you got one?
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