Who was it who mentioned Fram oil filters and dropping oil pressure?

We're going to try to get the Caravan into our guitar player's shop to do the brakes, and at the same time I'm going to have him get me a Wix filter for the Soob. It's 800 miles early, but the oil p dropped and started that horrible clacking noise again. It's supposed to be nice Sat and Sun, so I'll do an early oil change.

Results posted when I do.

Note: changing the oil does not always result in stopping the clacking...

Oh, yeah. You're Canadian eh. Did you once say you're near Kitchener?

Most filters have an anti-drainback valve (or if not, then there is usually one elsewhere in the system). On Ford modular V8, if you get a filter with a marginal anti-drain back vlave, then you are likely to get chain rattle if the engine sets over an extended period of time. The cam drive chains are tensioned by oil pressure, and if the oil drains out of the system, it take a heartbeat to build up pressure to the point that it can tension the chains. During this period, you can hear the chains rattle.

Fram filter may be just fine 99% of the time, but I don't like the way they are made. I don't like the paper end caps, the sloppy gluing, the crummy bypass valve, or the hard rubber anti-drain back valve of the standard orange FRAM filters. The higher priced Tough Guard filters are better, but cost more than better quality Motorcraft or Wix filters.

You can find plenty of horror stories regarding FRAM filters. I am sure you can find some related to other brands as well, but I think FRAM filters have generated more horror stories than all the others combined.

I don't buy the compressed air theory. I've seen filters installed at all sorts of angles. They all get air in them when the engine is shut down.

Ed

In Waterloo actually - can't tell the difference driving through. Home of the Blackberry. Stratford is just down the road - home of Fram/Allied Signal Canadian operations (and Kralinator too) Right next to Cambridge, home of the Corolla and a hop skip and a jump from Ingersol's CAMI plant and Woodstock's RAV4 and Hino plants.

The important point, for me, was that so many people jump on this bandwagon and there is very little or no objective data on the subject. This business of cutting open filters and declaring them good or no good got a lot of this started, and it had no relevance at all.

I disagree. Examining the components that make up a filter is a first step. You might not be able to determine the actual quality of the filter material, but you certianly can see a major difference in quality between a regular grade FRAM filter and a WIX or Motorcraft filter. I've cut open numerous used filter and more than once I've seen FRAMs with detached end caps. The regular grade FRAM filter may be adequate for the job, but a look at the insides of regular grade FROM filters convined me that they are not as good as filters from Motorcraft or Wix that have comparable (or even lower) prices.

FRAM does not claim to have particuarly good filtering efficiency, and they do appear to have cut corners on the interior construction. So in my mind the question is not if FRAM filters are OK, the question is, Given that FRAM filters are not particualrly cheap, why would I buy one?

Ed

*chuckle* no it does not...

once upon a time I bought a BMW 535i with high miles and an exhaust leak (but near pristine body and interior)

had the exhaust leak fixed and adjusted the valves (solid lifter cam)

noise did not go away...

spun a rod bearing a couple kilomiles later :(

Actually had the engine replaced with a junkyard motor but sold the car when I moved to VA. Was a great car but the cost of rebuilding the suspension (would have needed it soon enough) and buying new wheels to replace the original metric TRX wheels was more than the car was worth

nate

My prejudice against Fram is not based on that, but on other factors.

1) Back in around 1996/1997 or so, I bought a '67 Dart. One thing I did not like about the car was that when I'd start it first thing in the morning, it would rattle and clank and the oil light would take a long time to go out. (it'd quiet down and run silky smooth as soon as the oil light went out, so it was obviously an oil pressure issue.) The first time I changed the oil, I just went to the corner FLAPS and bought whatever they offered - turned out to be a Wix filter. The filter I took off was a Fram. Ever after, whenever I started it, it'd knock once or twice and immediately run quiet, and the oil pressure light would go out almost immediately. After asking online I found that this was not uncommon. Subsequently my then-girlfriend bought a '69 Valiant with the same engine and it exhibited the same symptoms and responded to the same fix. 2) Lots of anecdotal reports of Frams failing at the crimp between the base and can on a cold start on watercooled VW engines (which use heavy oil - recommended xW40 or xW50 - and can develop 100 PSI or more on a cold start, I've seen this myself on cars equipped with an oil pressure gauge) I never experienced this myself, as by the time I got my first VW I was already soured on Fram by my slant six experiences. In fact, I ran a Canton/Mecca filter on my Scirocco because I thought I was going to keep that car forever (and in retrospect, I should have.)

nate

The fact is it has been scientifically proven that Fram filters do a better job than Wix for removing the smallest particles from the oil. That was not determined by cutting filters open but by doing tests on the oil after many miles of service. And the effects of not filtering the finest particles takes many years and many miles to show up. The look of the filter may be important to you, but many taxi and delivery services use fram filters because they are more interested in the results than what the filter looks like on the inside.

Because tests have shown they do remove smaller particles than wix or purolator. That can be a good thing or a bad thing. If you have an old beater that is loaded up with an accumulation of those fines plus a worn out oil pump from many years of pumping those small particles putting a Fram filter on the engine can lead to trouble.

-jim

So? Running with no oil pressure for >10 sec at a time is way more detrimental to the life of an engine than

I understand your personal feelings about Fram. I dont use them either anymore, but have never had one fail on me. (I prefer not to swim upstream on matters like this). I am talking strictly about hard data, and there is little or none available on filters in general. I am sure the data exists, but extracting it is like pulling teeth.

Yeah, Ive heard this sort of anecdotal story before, but I have never experienced it, nor do I know anyone who has. It could be true....or not.

I knew Cambridge was the home of the Corolla (and Matrix and Pontiac Vibe), but i didn't know there was a Hino plant! How long has that been there?

When I was married to my wife, we used to go stay at her sister's house in Oshawa...with an upstairs balcony view of the Oshawa Assembly plant. There is a lot of the automotive industry, both the big guns, and the supplers in Ontario. At least there was until Bush 1 signed the Fair Trade Agreement. Then all the suppliers that had Canadian plants closed them up, since they didn't have to meet the Canadian 1/3 content laws anymore...

LOL! Not really! Lowered oil pressure in three cars with Fram filters got this thread started!

Oil pump is in fine condition. I took it off and tested it.

Funny thing, a slant six has mechanical lifters, so low oil pressure does not cause the light clatter that say, a Chevy six, or a 318 exhibits. Rod knock on startup IS SERIOUS.

They might filter the fine stuff when they stay together, but when the paper end comes off the filter media, it dilters NOTHING. And they DO come off. Not every one, but WAY too many.

You'd be surprized how long an engine can run with NO OIL AT ALL, particularly with solid lifters. - but there IS damage being done. Do it too often, and the engine WILL fail.

Often several thousand miles without a cold start in large metro area cabs.

Aircraft filters are cuy open at EVERY oil change to check for metal etc - and to verify the filtering capability as a secondary issue.

No Vibes out of Cambridge as far as I know, and the Hino plant has been there 2 or 3 years.

Kitchener has lost the vast majority of it's automotive parts manufacturing, and BOTH tire plants. Kitchener Frame, formerly Budd Automotive, just closed for good last year. Almost lost lear seating this year.. Lost most of the tool and die businresses too.