Losing control of the fuel efficiency debate

Page 5 of 9  


Have fun! http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Interesting. Not much difference between 4.6 and 3.8. A Crown with a 3.8 must be a slug.
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The perfect ride for old farts, who comprise the average Crown Vic customer base.
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uh sorry to burst your bubble, but the crown vic customer base is police , taxi, and fleet operations. the oldsters base car is the grand marquis, or the buick .

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My 02 Town Car - 4.6 - weighs about the same as a Vic, & I get 18 in town and 25 on the highway at 70, a bit over 27 at 65. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography Lifetime member; Vast Right Wing Conspiricy Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

If that noted family that can't afford a second vehicle wants some quality of life and has a camper to tow around so they can take affordable family vacations, then they sure do need that large pickup or SUV.
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That's true, but based on what I DON'T see in driveways & open garages when I'm out walking, the vast majority of people have nothing to tow.
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You won't see that here, either. But there's a reason:
Most garages won't accommodate a camper or trailer, so people use storage units. Storing in a driveway is not legal in many communities.
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You know I'm right. Stop grasping for straws. If the number of people driving trucks now (compared to 20 years ago) was in any way proportional to the number who tow campers, NY State would be building new state parks every week, and would KOA. They're not.
The "need to tow" argument is all too frequent, but inaccurate.
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Funny. I was thinking that about you. I know of three families who have two vehicles; one an SUV.
They have more than two children, mom keeps the SUV while dad drives an econo-box to work. The SUV is used to tow either boats or trailers for family activities. No other vehicle would work for these three households.

Maybe in some areas, but SoCal has quite a bit of money. People here are obsessed with outdoor activities due to a climate which permits it all year long.
In this case, your thinking is insular.
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To save typing, let's just say "trucks" to mean pickups & SUVs.
I'm gonna have to bludgeon you with an article I saw last year, which showed stats from the NY motor vehicle bureau. Essentially, what it showed was the enormous increase in registered trucks over the past 15 years, and a miniscule increase in the number of registered trailers. Of course, you don't need data to know this. You only need eyes when driving. I'll try and find the article, or the data at the DMV web site.
So much for the towing question.
Never mention how many kids someone has when you're trying to justify the purchase of a truck. You already know why.
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There you go again. NY is not the rest of the country, Joe. That's what I meant by "insular".

In NY.

No, I don't. If you've got two or more kids, want to tow your RV of any kind, and have enough room and horsepower to do so, a "truck" is your only option.
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So, you're pretty sure that the enormous increase in registered trucks in CA over the past 20 years is directly proportional to the number of towed toys?

You need to separate kids from towing. Some people buy a truck because of the kid factor, and never tow anything.
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Nope. Not the entire state, just SoCal. I'm serious when I say you'd be shocked as to the number of toys here.

Can't do that. They go hand-in-hand. Kids and off-roading, camping, or boating are nearly a way of life here. Even boats are now hybrids for fishing/skiing/wake-boarding. You should bother to look up literally how many BILLIONS of dollars are spent in the U.S. each year for fresh-water bass fishing alone.
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Kids and towing are not a factor all over America. You know that.
Now that we've established this fact, tell me why an SUV will carry 3 kids better than a minivan that gets 10 more miles per gallon.
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To risk my being insular, they sure as hell are here.

Try towing a boat or two-axle trailer with a mini-van.
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Not everyone says "I need an SUV to tow something". Even in California. Since you are obsessed with towing, though, I'll refer you to a much higher authority who knows EXACTLY what *********SOME********** of their customers want. Who is this authority? The manufacturers in combination with their ad agencies. Plenty of SUV ads portray a mommy and kids, and the only male in the ad is wearing diapers (not Scott) and being placed in a kid seat.
Now that we know this FACT, tell me why an SUV will carry 3 kids better than a minivan that gets 10 more miles per gallon.
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Under those strict parameters, I'd agree. But nothing in your cited commercials PRECLUDES that SUV from being used to tow something.
It could be considered an assumption that it is, as most of what I see here not only have a hitch, but the insert and ball showing wear.
But to agree with your Devil's advocate position, many SUV drivers are only owners specifically due to the size of the vehicle. Like monster trucks on the road, these idiots are compensating.
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The same is true for the vast majority of advertised vehicles. Therefore, if we are drunk, we can conclude that all Prius commercials are aimed at people who want to tow something.

Now you're thinking clearly.
I wonder what would happen if mini-van commercials repeated things like "34% better gas mileage than any non-hybrid SUV you might be looking at". These days, with so many cars getting over 30 mpg, a mini-van getting 26 doesn't seem like such a hot deal, but compared with an 8 cylinder SUV, the mileage difference is enormous.
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It brings to mind my old CJ-5. I purchased it new in 1974, for off-roading, and I thrashed that vehicle. It saw every kind of terrain available in SoCal. I even broke the frame on a "fly across a gap" landing.
A neighbor had a Dodge Power Wagon pickup. You remember the type, I'm sure. A street queen with chrome everything even down to the differential cover, which never got dirty or saw a non-asphalt road of any kind. But it sure looked impressive. Right.
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