The perfect road!

Now I have a self inking stamp that I dying to use if I get a ticket. The printed text is:

Without Prejudice Non Assumpsit Contract All Rights Reserved

Now, I'm told that if I use the stamp then sign the ticket (which only acknowledging receipt) the ticket becomes a useless piece of paper. Any lawyers out there that would care to offer an opinion?

How comforting. And from a veteran (pun intended), no less. And I'd expect you to be busting the chops of the cocky rookies.

Failing to pay attention to this unqualified "everything" is impossible.

As could most anyone; what's your point?

Wait a minute. It's the burden of the law to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person did something illegal, not the burden of the suspected person to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he or she DIDN'T do something illegal. Did you forget that?

If

What if I drive a stick, come to a stop sign on a slight hill, and roll forward toward the sign, then back a little, as I disengaged and then re-engaged the clutch. I did actually stop, but for a very short period of time. Would you be able to tell, every single time? Don't think so.

Once I have you

I just don't understand this attitude, and never will. You not only screw up the whole "who's got to prove what" thing just to serve your own ego trip, you waste my time, the court's, your own, and the public's with your "I'm the Terminator" power trip.

It's crap like this that makes the work of the police officer look petty and egomaniacal rather than noble, which it actually is.

Where'd you get it? All Rights Reserved... lol..

Maybe I'll email the attorney I used to get out of the last ticket about this.

It's my understanding the "all rights reserved" means that you have effectively copyrighted your signature and as such any use thereof ( in this case the ticket) must be explicitly granted by you the copyright owner.

Why? People will do what people will do. I was never the judge or jury... I just enforced the laws that were there. The cop who gets too wrapped up in it all burns out fast. You do 2 things.. you do your job as best you can and you make sure you go home after work.

That may be but the laws are written in such a way that it's the driver's responsibility to pay attention to everything even if it's not possible. One of the reasons drivers are supposed to be taught to continuously be watching all around... it's called defensive driving... and that can include defending against being stopped.

Wrong. Many of the laws assume you are guilty out of hand. A simple example is parking illegally. It makes no difference who was driving. The car was registered to you. Or if drugs are found in your car, it's on you unless someone else in the car admits they put it there. Seatbelts... your kid or whoever undoes their seatbelt and a cop sees, bingo. Get real and see how the court system really works.

You are SUPPOSED to be innocent until proven guilty, but quite often you have already lost the moment you walk in the door.

Doesn't matter. I can write the cite and it's up to you to fight it.

I gave you examples of how it could go. NOT how I personally operated during my 21 years. You are correct. There are cops like that that do ruin the system, and I spent a lot of time training rookies that this is NOT the way they should function.

I have also experienced a great many citizens who violate the rules of the road on a daily basis, and then get irate when the get stopped. As one "gentleman" put it, "I've been running this intersection for ten years and your and AH for stopping me." I didn't stop him. The lady with the car load of kids he wiped out stopped him.

It's a tough enough job, but it's one rarely understood by anyone who has never had to deal with the worst side of life on a daily basis.

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I'd think that's all you'd be able to do. But you sounded like you were the judge and the jury.

I understand the point, but the premise is wrong. Believe me, I hate inattentive drivers. People don't look in their mirrors for 10 minutes, and I may glance every 10 sec. or less. Is "humanly possible" part of that language? Drivers are human.

It should.

That's crap, too. I don't frisk my passengers. It's because there is no easy way to determine.. I know.. but it gets good people in trouble. I had an MIP because of this.

I have been there, and done that, and bitten my tongue. What I said (sadly) is purely rhetorical because of course I know the criminal screw-you-over system doesn't work that way. If, by luck of the draw, you get a good judge, it'll probably be ok. Not good enough. Sadly inadequate. Envy of the world? Why?

Most of the time. The vast majority. Their minds are made up, and they don't want to hear a word.

What a waste, man! Really, I mean, think about it. How ridiculous.

Well I'm glad to hear that.

That's an insolated and extreme incident. Yeah, I know, people get pissed off and ridiculous. And that incident pissed you off badly, I'm sure, as did many others. But I think too many develop a haughty attitude toward people who don't deserve it.

It's really too bad there are so many crappy and negligent drivers out there. Maybe this wouldn't be such a problem.

Fair enough I suppose.. I just hate these traffic laws and the way some cops love to put it to you with them. I didn't take his seatbelt off, I told him to put the damned thing on or I wasn't moving because of this. I actually do this, because it's my car, and my ass. So he takes it off later. What, am I supposed to stop on an interstate and get into a wrestling match over the belt, or boot him out of my car? It gets to the point where it's a no-win. And it should never get there.

Interesting..

Yes it is. But when stopped, you are under the control and direction of the officer, so it is in a being taken into a sort of custody. Not quite the same thing as being physically taken away, so I get your point.

>

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Hey Kate, Long time no talk! Highway 4 is a great scenic cruiser, but for ultimate Cobra roads it's gotta be Del Puerto Canyon, Patterson Pass or Corral Hollow! You do remember those don't you? The absolute greatest ways to get from the Central Valley to the East Bay (almost no CHiPs)

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 04:52:46 GMT, "Richard" wrote something wonderfully witty:

Well I'll tell you not to put much faith in it working. Almost all tickets in the various states I've gotten one in explicitly say that it is not an admission of guilt, but only an acknowledgement of receipt and promise to appear. In Ca if you want to show up for your day in court you have to pay the ticket which is considered to be a version of bail. You also have to waive your right to a speedy trial. When you show up in court the judge patiently listens to your story and the loudly announces; "Guilty as charged, bail revoked". Which in the end basically means your fine is already pre-paid carry your silly ass out of my courtroom. If you are a no-show at your court date the same thing happens, your posted bail is revoked and the ticket is considered paid. Weird ass system.

Oh disclaimer, that is the way it work in San Jose Ca in the middle eighties, things might have changed since. They usually do.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 05:38:15 GMT, "Richard" wrote something wonderfully witty:

Actually under current copyright law anything that you write is implied to be copyrighted at the time you write it. Every post you make to this forum is yours and all rights are reserved without doing anything. If I was to put together a book of Usenet missives, you could sue me over not getting your permission.

The is a very recent case where I guy noticed that a picture he had taken during a modeling session in 1968 was being used on an Instant Coffee bottle. Basically it was him sniffing a cup of Coffee with a look of satisfaction on his face. He did pose for the shot and the Coffee cup was added in front of his head-shot. Anyhow after seeing it in a supermarket he got a lawyers and sued Nestlé. He won 15.8 million for wrongful use of his image without permission or compensation.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 06:06:52 GMT, "Richard" wrote something wonderfully witty:

Actually in the legal sense of the word Arrested only means "To seize and hold under the authority of law" it does not that you have been taken into custody. That is apprehended.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 05:02:13 GMT, Wound Up wrote something wonderfully witty:

No he didn't, but he is right. When I went to court over the very issue you are talking about it was simply a he said, he said issue. Judge believed the officer and revoked my bail which is the pre-paying of the fine. I showed up with pictures, graphs, and notes showing I could not have run the stop sign on the day & time in question. No dice, we need the revenue, your outta here. Next case.

Spike I guess my beef comes down to this

The system is horribly flawed and unjust. If its front line has a bad day, a prejudice, makes a mistake or has an attitude problem, I am wrongfully put into the flawed system. This has happened to me a couple of times. It will happen to everyone sooner or later. Some of those who get pissed when they are pulled over are people like me, who have been screwed, and some far worse than I. We start hating cops. We start to think they are egomaniacal, profiling, prejudiced, power-drunk a-holes with nothing better to do than walk around my car and write tickets and "let me 'fight' them" when they know I haven't a chance in hell, basically. We are all susceptible to prejudice. But patterns develop, and the conviction (no pun intended) becomes stronger. I am certainly not alone in this experience. I think I'm in the majority.

We then might call you when our $1500 stereo is stolen, a felony theft, and you go through the motions, and just laugh at us when we ask "do these things ever turn up". Or if you're renting the best apt. you can afford in college, but Section 8 neighbors move in next door and start selling crack, and crackheads are crawling all around looking for shit to steal, or rape victims, you do jack squat, and get pissy with me for calling you. Sorry to bug you, but there are crackheads looking in my windows and in my car at 2am every damned night. So you know that house, too, huh? Why aren't you there, crime fighter? Jesus. And if a crackhead gets in and threatens me or my girlfriend, suddenly my life is screwed for good if I spray him all over the wall out of genuine fear for my life. "Manslaughter case? Are you kidding?" says the prospective employer, and many other important people, forever. Or potentially for 7-10 years, whichever comes first. The self-defense defense is a joke. Some say "there is no self-defense", literally and figuratively.

So the attitude of "I will cite you if I want to, right or wrong, and it's up to you to fight it" is just saying, "I will use my authority to screw with whomever I wish, whenever I wish". That person, especially with a badge and a gun, who is a public servant, deserves and gets nothing but my contempt and hatred.

You said you didn't do this, and I believe you, for the most part. But understand how shittily the average person is treated by the system, and understand that they front line - you - has the biggest impact on what happens and when. To make matters worse, cops and courts and lawyers et al. are constantly and relentlessly glorified by TV shows and other media, and I'll be damned if I'll ever know why. It's like they're saying, "please believe us, it's not so bad". Cops have a tough and dangerous job. I wouldn't want it. But they use that to justify every other ridiculous and glaring failure there is. Not acceptable.

I'm not as naive as you might be th> >

We need the revenue. Exactly. Such a noble end. It's so transparent it's sickening.

I think this falls under the category of Urban Legend... but there is always a possibility that some court case has brought this about.

While it is standard practice to Mirandize right away... it is NOT required UNLESS the pers>The person who told me about getting the stamp told me that he has used it.

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You get very little argument from me. But, if you had to deal with what many very good cops have to deal with on a daily basis, often the result of a "bad" cop, you might have a bit more understanding. Go out on the road and listen to the excuses, and then pick up a child's broken body, or be the one to inform your neighbor his wife, son, and unborn child were killed by a drunk driver.

I often watched drivers actions. Then used a minor violation to make a stop and check them for DUI, being over tired, or whatever. Generally, I knew when I approached the driver whether I was going to issue a cite or not. Driver's attitudes sometimes change my mind. The important thing was that I got drunks off the road. I also got those who were over tired from pulling a double shift at the hospital or whatever, to take a break... open the window and get some fresh air... and get home alive.

I've also been know to transport such people home rather than jail them.

Like every walk of life, a small percentage of pe>Spike I guess my beef comes down to this

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And as populations grow, and revenues shrink, don't be surprised if it gets worse. Fortunately, I never had anyone tell me how many tickets I had to write. Everywhere I worked, I was free to write as many as I wanted... : )

I'm not making light of how you feel. But, having been out there; having bullet holes appear in my car door, drunks deciding they want to resist (never had a pot smoker cause me any problem though), spouses abusing spouses, parents abusing children and vice versa, traffic cite complaints are low on my priority list. When I got stopped, I knew I was in violation. I signed the cite and paid the fine (yes, cops do get cited).

You really have to care about people to go out there every day and try to make a difference when things keep getting worse with each passing year, and nobody wants you around until something happens to them. Yes, there are those on power trips. I have personally seen to the end of several careers for that reason. But the vast majority of us are really people who care enough to lay it on the line every day for you. We really do keep chaos at bay. Most of us would rather be finding lost children or helping grandmas out of snow banks, then dealing with a puking drunk or whatever.

You have your attitude. Maybe you have good reason. Just try to understand things from my side of the fence. The very nature of my job made us adversaries of sorts. You want to do your thing without restriction, and I have to enforce the restrictions.

On the plus side... I'm retired, and we will never meet in that situation.

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On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 13:03:14 -0800, Spike wrote something wonderfully witty:

But that is still a moral condition, once you are cuffed you are apprehended. Or something like that.

I've been told more then once that should Joe Officer decide to play Joe Dickhead, that one should go ahead and demand to be allowed to depart. One should also never ever say anything once they have been read their rights until the have representation.