2013 Hyundai Sonata - Caster at low end of Spec Range

hange the toe-im. I don't know if they'll be in spec but that should improv e straight line stability. The young alignment guy might not want to do it so find the oldest, most ornery-looking coot in the shop and ask him. The p rice you pay will be increased tire wear.

on the problem. The toe-in might not be to spec. If this is a common probl em with these cars, then you'll have to go out of spec. Well that's my opin ion anyway. If you're saying that he has to get the rear end squared away f irst well, yes, of course.

I should have known that adjusting the toe-in is too simple a solution for this group. That's the breaks. :)

dsi1:

The only toe adjustment with directional consequences is rear. Front is a tire wear matter, and steering wheel angle at straight ahead.

If it always drifts off in the same direction, in your case to the left, try fixing the camber. I saw this online:

If it's drifting to the right, try swapping the front tires side to side.

If it drifts only some of the time, remember that the road itself can cause this, and BTW, increasing the caster would make that problem worse.

And there is no point at all in not correcting the rear toe. It's a trivial adjustment.

Thanks Bill:

At least we've narrowed it down. :)

I showed those kits to both dealers and they said all they are is a pile of bolts and washers, that 'additional hardware' is needed to adjust the front camber.

And my local body shops said they won't touch the front camber without a 'kit'. The concensus here is that neither the dealers nor the outside body places know exactly what the F- is needed to adjust front camber on these Sonatas(2011-14).

Thanks Bill:

At least we've narrowed it down. :)

I showed those kits to both dealers and they said all they are is a pile of bolts and washers, that 'additional hardware' is needed to adjust the front camber.

And my local body shops said they won't touch the front camber without a 'kit'. The concensus here is that neither the dealers nor the outside body places know exactly what the F- is needed to adjust front camber on these Sonatas(2011-14).

Well, I finally looked at a picture of your front suspension, and I see that someone would have to use a grinder and elongate one of the strut bolt holes. That's not necessarily a big deal, but I guess a lot of techs would be reluctant to do that. Because of that, I would take the easiest path, and first try to swap the front tires with each other. You can also try shifting the engine cradle, but I doubt that would do much.

Does it always drift to the left? And how far does the car travel before it leaves the lane?

Bill Vanek wrote: "it always drift to the left? And how far does the car travel before it leaves the lane? "

Drift: 70% left / 30% right. Also, it is slightly easier to steer left than to steer right.

Conditions: Drift is dependent on crown/overall angle of roadway.

Could be one eighth to one quarter mile before drifting across dotted line on a highway, at 60-65mph.

If highway or local street is reasonably and consistently crowned, Sonata will go straight or slightly to the right.

As soon as the road flattens out, it will slowly drift left, toward the dotted white or double yellow.

I would really rather do the 'kit thang' as far as reducing front cross-camber is concerned, rather than the surgery you suggested. SOMEBODY out in Hyundai World must know what that front camber bolt kit consisted of, and could explain it to me and see if it still exists somewhere on planet Earth. :s

Well that's the end of it right there. There is nothing at all you can do about that, and as I said in another post, increasing caster will make that worse. Another influence is the width of the tires. The wider they are, the more the car will react to the road. If you are comparing this car to another one, it's pointless unless the cars are identical.

That's not unusual.

But how do you know that it's "flat"? Crowned is one thing, but the road surface is not necessarily level, and that's impossible to determine visually.

You can't use a kit without elongating the holes. There might be ball joints that will allow a camber/caster adjustment, though.

To be honest, I don't think there's anything wrong with the car. But if on the exact same stretch of road, in the same lane, it sometimes goes left, and sometimes right, that's something else entirely, but I don't think that's the case after reading this post.

Bill Vanek wrote: "You can't use a kit without elongating the holes. There might be ball joints that will allow a camber/caster adjustment, though. "

Not the case with Sonata YF(2011-14) series: A camber kit was required and was provided for front camber adj. It was analagous to a key that unlocked a safe or whatever. Some parts were bolted on to that part of the suspension that allowed for camber adjustment, and the adjustment was made. No drilling, no guessing.

What remains unknown is which years of the YF series was the kit provided for. A check of my VIN by one of the dealer parts depts showed no kit available for my car. So it looks like some surgery might be necessary to equalize that front neg. camber and reduce cross-camber maybe to 0.2 or .3 degrees.

The local body shops said they are "adamantly" reluctant to do this on a recent car like my Sonata until all potentially worn/loose/or bent parts are diagnosed. I bought the car at 29,900 miles, and it now has about

30,500, still relatively new, and I want my investment to be something I want to jump in and drive every day to work, the supermarket, or wherever. :)

The discussion has moved away from caster. At least that is equal left to right - less than 1/10th degree cross caster.

Another option might be to 'minus-size' my tires, although this might prove costly with regards to replacement rims. You mentioned that wider tires are more responsive to changes in road angle.

Replace the current 215/55-R17 V-rated with 205/60-R16 V-rated.

Or should I chase the front cross-camber issue first?

I really don't know what to tell you now. I wouldn't bother unless the car is consistently pulling to the left, but it's up to you to decide on the meaning of "consistently". But even if it is, the very first thing I would do, because it's the cheapest thing, is swap those front tires side to side. I would do that first, but I though you also mentioned that there are different tires front and rear, so after doing the side to side swap, I would try front to rear. The rears might feel different on the front.

Bill Vanek: "I really don't know what to tell you now. I wouldn't bother unless the car is consistently pulling to the left, but it's up to you to decide on the meaning of "consistently"

All I'm saying is when it *does* drift it does so *mostly* to the left. I will try to swap the front tires and drive that for one week. The Kumhos in back are so worn that swapping them to the front may not make a difference. They're so poorly rated on Tire rack: Unacceptable in snow and ice and fair to good for all other qualities. The front Nexens have no ratings on tire rack - weird. It's not even a question of replacing both front Nexens and and rear Kumhos - neither tire will see a flake of snow If I have any say in it. The two Continental models I'm thinking about blow them away on all qualities - from dry to snow, to handling to noise. My wife has had 4 winters of bliss with her Conti ProContacts, and the PureContacts are even slightly higher rated by consumers.

But - my instinct tells me *something* should be done about the front excess cross-camber. The effect of leaving that alone will be felt regardless of how cheap or expensive tires, however poorly or highly rated, are put on the car.

Why did they sell you a car with badly worn tires? Can't you insist on new ones as part of the deal, or at least a swap with another car on the lot? Or was this not a Hyundai dealer?

First thing I would do is check all the rims for issues and replace all

4 tires to get the same size and tread on all 4 corners. Mixed brands, tire compounds and sizes (even if they have the same numbers they can still be different sizes depending on the way the company actually measures them) can cause some strange handling quirks. Now drive it a bit and see if it has improved.

Next take it to a couple different shops for alignment checks and compare the numbers. With 4 identical tires inflated to the door sticker the numbers from both places should be close to identical.

Next decide what you want to do. With the numbers you posted you need to get it to a shop to adjust the both ends back to spec.

Find a shop and tell them that is what YOU the paying customer wants.

Steve W wrote: - show quoted text - "First thing I would do is check all the rims for issues and replace all

4 tires to get the same size and tread on all 4 corners. Mixed brands, tire compounds and sizes (even if they have the same numbers they can still be different sizes depending on the way the company actually measures them) can cause some strange handling quirks. Now drive it a bit and see if it has improved. "

Good point. Due to my budget, I will probably have four identical tires on the car by October.

"Next take it to a couple different shops for alignment checks and compare the numbers. With 4 identical tires inflated to the door sticker the numbers from both places should be close to identical. "

I've got the numbers from one dealer who says their equipt was recently calibrated. I have a garage nearby that has done good alignments for me in the past. Perhaps they're next - after I get some updated rubber on the car.

"Next decide what you want to do. With the numbers you posted you need to get it to a shop to adjust the both ends back to spec. "

The tech at the aforementioned dealer(with the recently calibrated alignment gear) says he drove the car after checking it, on highway and local roads, and says even with those numbers he doesn't want to change a thing, says it drives "beautifully". But he isn't the one driving it daily, and apparently doesn't grasp the concepts of cross-camber or total toe.

"Find a shop and tell them that is what YOU the paying customer wants.

- show quoted text - "Why did they sell you a car with badly worn tires? Can't you insist on new ones as part of the deal, or at least a swap with another car on the lot? Or was this not a Hyundai dealer? "

Guess I was just in a hurry to get the car I wanted. Enterprise car sales. Supposed to have a "109 Point" inspection of all cars they acquire for resale.

The Sonata I drove exhibited none of the characteristics of the one I actually bought, but that one lacked the sunroof I wanted.

Guess you can't have it all!

Bill:

Test drove, that is.

Did you ask if you could swap tires with the one you liked? Enterprise should have no objection to that, or swapping with another car. If not, then Steve W.'s advice is to get new and high quality tires is good advice.