Chubby Cheddar on Today: There is no reason to use High Octane gasoline

I can tell the difference in performance of my 04 Sienna between winter and summer gas, and regular and premium grades. I remember at the Phillips 66 station I worked PT, gas was .28/gal. In the small city 30 miles away they had gas wars and prices went way down, .17/gal. Them were the good old days, many moons ago.

That's true. However, the keyword here is "allows." That means it works for some engines. And not others. It all depends on the design of the engine and the software running it.

Some cars will have better performance with higher octane fuel while others won't.

Jeff

Ethanol will raise the octane somewhat but that is not the reason I have heard given for the blend. They claim it will, being oxygenated, help decrease emissions. (But with all the pollution control designed into our cars, the catalytic convertors, etc, is that really a big issue?)

And they claim it is good because it is a renewable energy source..and that it will help reduce our dependence on foreign oil sources....etc etc

Politically, I think it is more to subsidize certain agricultural entities, and to pay lip service to the environment, renewable fuels, etc.

That is sort of right, but not totally. Traditionally higher octane gasolines used refinery reformates (remember Platformate?) which are aromatic hydrocarbons. These molecules have a higher octane than most simple hydrocarbons but the dont have the same energy content....because they are deficient in hydrogen, which is the highest combustion energy source in most fuels. With the use of additives such as tetraethyllead, you could get high octane numbers with simpler fuels.

Yup. I bet it didn't have a ping sensor and an automatic gadget that adjusted the timing to prevent pinging, though.

If the ECU actually gave a message to the driver saying that it was doing this, people would have a much better idea whether premium gas was helping or hurting them.

Oh, this is absolutely true. But the fix for this isn't to use higher octane gas, but to try some of the magic engine cleaning compounds. Or more likely to pop the heads and knock that crap off with a chisel. That's another thing that I am pleased to see modern engine control systems preventing....

--scott

Damn! How old ARE you?!?!?

I remember the Gas Wars, but I was under 8 years old, so that's somewhere from 62-65.

I do remember buying gas for a mini bike at 32 cents a gallon.

My first tank of gas was 41 cents, and the next one was 55.

Must be one hell of a sack!

They probably remove it when it gets off the boat.

Looking through some pics, it appears the Toyota Crown is what became the LS400, with the Royal edition trim. Interesting, since the Crown used to be sold on it's own here in the late 60's/early 70's. What cars they were, too.

I used to do that to my two-stroke Yamahas...

For the cars, I was using Chevorn with Techron, but when Chevron closed their stations in the Northeast I now just run a bottle of Techron through the engine every 25,000 miles or so...older engines only.

I am not in favor of using Genies in a Bottle until the engine gets over

I ran a series of tests on my Dodge Neon RT after I bought it. The dealer said premium recommended but it will do okay on regular.

I ran ten tankfuls of each, compiling statistics to compute probable error/sigma.

I found a slight increase in milage on regular, but well within the probable error, so my conclusion had to be that it made no difference in milage. I didn't have good enough timing equipment to do a good, accurate performance test, but to the seat of my pants it seemed to make no difference.

That engine was a DOHC high revving four.

The lowest price Regular gas is what I always use.No problems yet.

Not to be off topic, but we got about three quarter to about inch of snow last night.I hate snow! cuhulin

There is significant information on using ethanol as a fuel with highly developed engines of this type, particularly with a turbocharger. It functions pretty well as a fuel if the engine is designed for it, but of course the energy content is lower than nonoxygenated fuels.

Still, there have been other tests that show that fuels with substantial amounts of water in them can give better performance than would be predicted by thermodynamic energy balance alone.

The use of corn to make ethanol is, IMHO, a boondoggle. It makes pretty fine sipping whiskey, but fuel is not the best use of a crop like corn.

SIPPING WHISKEY?!?!?!

Dude, you got a cast iron stomach? Are you like Bender on Futurama?!?!?!

By the time it gets to fuel use, it's...

The only time in my entire 35 years of consuming adult beverages I have said, "NEVER AGAIN!!!" ;p

And today it's our turn...

They mandate it in Mass primarily because of the Boston area, but we have to be Politically Correct here, so we ALL get it, even at the other end of the state.

We also got CA emissions standards shortly after CA did. A lot of people from where I live were going to Vermont to buy cars.

They 'claiim', for sure. Problem is, when there is a CORN SHORTAGE like there was this summer, isn't fuel really the last thing you want to run your car on? Did you see the price of corn based cereals this year?!?!

They have discovered they can make the same (or almost the same) grade ethanol from...er, what was it? Swamp grass? Buffalo grass? I can't remember. But it will also yield a fuel-grade ethanol and not reduce the corn-for-food supplies...

Interesting, but I think even Vermont has now gone Ethanol-enhanced.

Oh, you can make ethanol from a lot of things...potatoes, sugar cane juice, etc. Anything with fermentable sugars or starches.

Corn requires a lot of nitrogen to grow well...and that, nowadays, mostly comes from petroleum.. Yes, you could get it from animal manures, but in practice that is not what they do. (BS is plentiful in Washington, but does not work for this application ;>)

Corn only produce 2-4 ears per stalk. That is a relatively low weight of fermentable carbohydrate for the space and fertilizer consumed.

They were talking about switch grass, but talk is cheap.

I should have added the caveat that my explanation only applies to vehicles built in the last 10 or 15 years, most of which electronically advance ignition timing until the knock sensors detect knocking or pinging and retard timing.

Once, Hach? I'm sure you've tagged way more than once just on Global Warming alone!

I think that the Crown and the original LS were different platforms, with the LS sold as the Celsior in Japan. I don't know if that is still the case or not.