Okay, I get it. Every magazine writer is a complete asshole bought off by the local friendly sales guy. Every civilian reviewer that laid out $600 thinks whatever he bought is the greatest thing since sex. Nobody publishes reliable data. The consumer is screwed. I'll go you one better. A major chain in the western US, Les Schwab's, which I've bought tires from, tends to sell tires with their own house models and brands. I've bought tires from them, never had problems, and their service is great, but good luck trying to find out anything about a 'Road Control Touring A/S'.
We don't have perfect information. But we do have good information.
What you do is read the sidewall.
The sidewall of every passenger car tire sold in the USA contains a wealth of information about the construction of the tire, the wet and dry traction of the tire, and the treadwear expectancy of that exact tire.
Do I wish we had the factory datasheets? Sure.
We all know that these magazines are "entertainment". Even the network news is "entertainment". Hell ... our own President is sheer entertainment! :)
There's nothing wrong with reading that magazine, or any magazine (heck, I used Playboy as my anatomy reference for years in my early days!).
There's nothing wrong with reading the magazine. But let's be realistic.
That wasn't a "tire review". It was a shill for the Cooper tire marketing guys.
Nothing wrong with that - it's entertainment (which is why they brought Unser in driving a Corvette since it had nothing whatsoever to do with rating the passenger car tires).
My point is that you're never going to find anything better for *all* tires, than the sidewall of *every* tire.
Sure, you can get a factory datasheet of one or two tires, but you'll never get that detailed information for all the tires you are considering.
Notice the content of the first sentences of that article by Christian Moe? It's essentially the exact same first and last sentences of the MT article by Jason Udy.
They both ran through the same tests at the same track at the same time using the same cars using the same tires?
The article says a dozen journalists were handed this "opportunity". So it's not surprising that two different journalists wrote stories based on their sanctioned "business trip" (for that is what it was).
Those articles were lock stock and barrel orchestrated from start to finish by the Cooper Marketing Team.
There's nothing wrong with reading that article.
All I'm saying is that the article was entertainment.
I'm saying the article was run by Cooper Marketing.
I'm saying the journalists were given an opportunity to write a "story".
And they were certainly fed the exact same marketing blurbs.
I'm saying they reported exactly zero measurements.
They didn't even report the lap times.
And their 'tests' had no controls whatsoever (not even a placebo).
Clearly - it's entertainment and not science. More to the point - it's MARKETING and not science.
Nothing wrong with that. But, the blanket statements that Cooper beats Pirelli and Hancook are not supported by anything in the articles.
I'm not saying Cooper isn't better, nor that Pirelli and Hancook are anythign special to beat - all I'm saying is that the articles were pure Cooper marketing and magazine entertainment.
They were not tire reviews.
Yikes. I hope everyone was ok.
The problem here is that most of us (all of us?) trust our own experience far more than we trust others' experience.
I went in with an open mind, but I have read car magazines before, especially when I was a kid, and they are fantastic for entertainment.
Why do you think Cooper marketing brought in Unser driving a Corvette on the Cooper tires anyway with the author riding shotgun? It's all entertainment. It wasn't supposed to be a tire test.
If it was a tire test, they would have measured *something* (anything!) But they reported absolutely ZERO measurements. Zero! What kind of tire test is that?
A thousand words of some author praising the Cooper marketing guys. It's great entertainment; but it wasn't even close to a "tire test".
Even if it was a tire test, it only "tested" three tires, none of which are the size and brand of mine nor the size and brands I was looking at nor anyone else - so - it was useless as a tire test. Great for entertainment; but useless as a tire test.
What's sad is that you apparently *thought* it was a tire test. That's a very scary thing.
Do you realize what that "test" really was? Or, do you still think it was actually a tire test?
Please, dear God ... don't tell me you still think it was really a tire test. Please ... renew my faith in the innate intelligence of humans. Please Dear God.
This statement is where we disagree. To my knowledge, only two entities publish "reliable data".
Consumers Union (aka Consumer Reports), and,
The sidewall of every passenger tire sold in the United States
Unfortunately, when I look at CR reports, they don't have every tire I'm looking at, but the good news is that every sidewall of every tire has the "reliable data" that you say doesn't exist.
Does the sidewall have reliable data on overall tire construction? Yes. Does the sidewall have reliable data on wet straight traction? Yes. Does the sidewall have reliable data on average dry traction? Sort of. Does the sidewall have reliable data on treadwear life? Sort of. ---------- Does the sidwall have reliable data on anything else? No. ----------
No they are not.
Every tire has reasonably reliable data on construction, traction, and tread life.
Would I like more data printed on the sidewall? Sure. But that's good enough to pick tires by.
Certainly it's *far* better than that "tire review".
That's my entire point, which I said earlier, which is that the sidewall of
*every* tire gives you reasonably reliable data about the construction, traction, and treadwear of that exact tire.
That's printed on *every* passenger tire.
Now, some people will tell me they get "factory analysis" and "factory tests" and "factory data" for their (racing?) tires - which is fantastic if they can get that information - because - Lord Knows - the factory knows all of that.
But good luck on getting factory datasheets on all the tires you're considering.
Even CR, which is an OK magazine (they are just ok though), doesn't rate all the tires.
All you have that is reliable for all tires, is what's printed on the sidewall. To ignore that information would be foolish.
Bought new tires today. Trusted my own experience and consulted with the dealer. They are the same spec as the OEM tire on my car, but not the same brand. Why? Because even though the sidewall spec was good, the Michelin tires were crap. They never rode smooth even though the balance was checked and they were rotated. Vibration started at 45 and got worse with speed. Very bad at 80 and up.
I finally got rid of them and put on a set of Nokian entyre 2.0. Steers better, rides better, and smooth to 100 mph, the fastest I tried so far.
There is more to a good tire than the specs on the sidewall. They have to be put together properly too.
As for price, I got them from a local dealer for $2 more than on line prices so that is a plus for me.
After 10k or so I can give a better review to see how they are holding up. I've had Nokian WRG3 on another car and like them, but now retired, I'm not planning in driving is snow any more.
Actually Simple Tire has ZERO inventory. Its a group of guys sitting behin d a computer processing orders. They ship from other dealer warehouses. I t looks great in the short run, but eventually the dealers that already buy from these distributors will get pissed and ban together and shut simple d own. At least Tire Rack has its own inventory ans ships from there own war ehouse. As a consumer you may find Simple tire a great purchase. As a bus iness that is currently being screwed by the corporation level of my distri butor, it sucks. Why would i buy and warehouse a tire to sell to a custome r if i could drop ship it. Its not revolutionary, it will put people out o f work.
replying to Jonas Schneider, Captain Obvious-er wrote: Wow.... you bought a no-name chinese tire at a lower price than a quality name brand tire. So what's the point you're trying to make?
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.