Road noise suppression (undercoating)

he can't. it's just typical nate trying to fill his vast knowledge vacuum with made-up bullshit.

Reply to
jim beam
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maybe, but maybe not. many of these coatings dry and then crack. others are simply porous almost from the start.

in my experience, the best solution is a combo of properly applied paint, with one of the thicker "undercoat" mixes on top. the former provides the non-porous adherent layer and the latter helps prevent it chipping.

Reply to
jim beam

maybe, but maybe not. many of these coatings dry and then crack. others are simply porous almost from the start.

in my experience, the best solution is a combo of properly applied paint, with one of the thicker "undercoat" mixes on top. the former provides the non-porous adherent layer and the latter helps prevent it chipping.

Reply to
jim beam

no, it's entirely dependent on the material. it's very rare for "undercoat" alone to be sufficiently coherent and non-porous to protect metal unless it's used on top of another substrate like paint.

it's not soundproofing, it's chip proofing to stop the paint beneath it holing and letting rust initiate. sound proofing is the stuff /inside/ the car.

Reply to
jim beam

Troll tag team... Only say so because you two can't possibly be this stupid combined. Even a small child can understand what happens when a coating is applied without proper surface preparation. Lack of proper surface preparation with undercoating, like with all coatings causes the coating to separate. However undercoating when it separates if it cracks or has any porosity will let in water and trap it against the metal.

Anyone who has worked on older undercoated cars should have experienced this first hand. See undercoating bubbled up, scrape it off... sometimes rust, sometimes good paint. Depends if moisture got in the area where adhesion was lost or not.

Reply to
Brent

you're a retard b[r]ent. you can "properly" apply /any/ coating, but if the coating composition is inappropriate or defective, and porosity is the example /i/ gave before your dumb ass came along trying to hump my leg, then the method of application and/or preparation is irrelevant.

so how does painted material rust b[r]ent?

Reply to
jim beam

Uh huh...

See if you can find someone able to explain to you in sufficiently small words the difference in "preparation" and "application".

"Older" is a move of the goal post and subsequently a straw man, of course. The premise is: "undercoating not meticulously applied promotes rust".

It takes a genuine ignoramus to make statements so vague and yet so absolute as to cover every formulation of undercoating ever commonly applied to vehicles. -----

- gpsman

Reply to
gpsman

First, the rust issue. I wouldn't undercoat a car. If it's going to rust, it's going to rust. Death, taxes - and rust. For those driving on salted roads, some say washing the salt off underneath once in a while is supposed to help. Others say the car wash water is brined up and just spreads the salt into more places. And getting under there with your own garden hose to spray unsalted water in the winter - or any other time - is plain impractical unless you're crazy obsessed. The only common advice on this subject that I buy is to avoid keeping the car in a heated garage because of the increased chemical reaction. Never had a heated garage, so never made that decision. The most important part with rusting is how the manufacturer treated the metal, and engineered the drainage. You won't know until late in the car's life. I haven't heard of any rusting after a few years lately, like they used to do. I've recently had - last 20 years - or maintained an '85 Cav, '88 Celebrity, '90 and '93 Corsica, '93 Grand Am, '95 Bonneville and '97 Lumina. None were treated after the factory. The '85 Cav and '88 Celebrity rusted through when 10 years old. Door bottoms and rockers. The Lumina rockers holed after 13 years, but the rust is slow to progress, and hitting it with POR-15 then spraying enamel keeps it looking decent for a year - to me anyway. None of the others holed after +17 years. All were driven in similar conditions, so it's obviously the original metal and prepping that made the difference. I can't say how Zeibart or other undercoatings work in the long run. By the time my cars rust badly they're about to be retired anyway. Sound. I always test drive first, and won't buy a noisy car except as a local beater. Just like the rusting, that's determined at the factory. Sound dampening ages like everything else. Getting quiet tires is the only way I'd address noise. Maybe replacing the underhood mat if that's gone bad. If the OP wants info on this, plugging "auto sound deadening" into Youtube provides a lot of info. More than he'll get here. But I don't know what sound he's dealing with. Undercoating might help with road noise. It all looks like a lot of work and money, so he well might be better off spending a few bills for a shop to spray the undercarraige.

Reply to
Vic Smith

That's exactly it. If it adheres well and uniformly and doesn't crack, it can help prevent rust. If it *does* crack or delaminate, the vehicle will rust faster where water is trapped underneath of the undercoating.

I've heard tell of a "Krown" brand rustproofing available primarily in Canada which is oily and stays semi-soft, that might be the ticket. I've also not noticed nearly as many problems with the waxy, paraffin-looking German undercoating (that is typically painted over) than I have with the traditional American asphalt-based stuff.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Switching to quieter tires will probably help more than anything else.

Those products and even asphalt-like undercoatings can trap moisture and ca use rust problems if they're applied wrong (not enough surface preparation or applied over SealWax) or applied in the wrong places (Great Stuff foam i nside wheel wells could be a good way to rust the fenders). And generally, foams don't work well for low-pitched noise, compared to dense stuff like asphalt.

Road noise went down in my 1993 Ford Escort after I removed the dashboard a nd covered the inside of the firewall with fiberglass insulation with a she et of 1/4" thick rubber over that. Also it's important to seal all the fir ewall holes because even a small one can transmit as much noise as several square feet of solid metal. I also put rubber behind the door panels and o ver the rear wheel wells (inside the trunk) and the suspension struts.

Check the factory body manual (don't Kia and Hyundai make their manuals ava ilable online for free?) to see what soundproofing is put into the high-end versions of the same model. For example, V-6 Toyota Camrys have a lot mor e soundproofing than the 4-cyl versions.

Reply to
larrymoencurly

It's not my fault you can't read what Nate wrote. And please stop projecting your behavior on me. Any I was discussing separation of the coating, porosity only with respect to what happens -with- separation which you did not discuss.

Are you just completely unfamiliar with what holding moisture against painted sheet metal does? Are you totally unfamiliar with how cars rust out when things like trunk gaskets start leaking leaving pools of water trapped inside up against the metal... the painted metal?

Reply to
Brent

what do you know about rust b[r]ent? [rhetorical]

i know you know nothing about gallionella. i know you know nothing about the origin of electrode potentials. i know you know nothing about dislocation density and activation energy. i know you know nothing about thermodynamics.

so, you want to bleat about "moisture" and "sheet metal"? figure out the difference between your ass and a hole in the ground first.

Reply to
jim beam

Translation: You are clueless and refuse to man up to your error as usual.

Reply to
Brent

one thing i am indeed clueless about - it's your need to flagellate yourself in public. i mean, i'm happy to taunt the average retard, but you're just too stooopid.

Reply to
jim beam

Translation: You are clueless and still refuse to man up to your error.

Open your car's trunk. If there is trim on the sides of the trunk, remove it. Fill the drop offs behind the rear wheels with water. Top off as needed. Let me know how it turns out.

Reply to
Brent

It used to be here, everyone got their cars undercoated. Any wheel well like the 60's mustang rusted surely. People didn't used to keep their cars long. The biggest improvement was plastic liners, but water seems to still get in there near the rim, and you see cars and trucks rusting there all the time. My 77 280z had plastic front fender liners, but the bottom rear had no protection, and rusted. I got my 93 Dakota ziebarted. After 3-4 years it began to crack and split, and it was a pretty thick coating. So, thickness is no good with that material, and probably did little good, perhaps bad. If it's driven around here for 15 years, the under body goes, brake lines need replaced.

Greg

Reply to
gregz

They used to Ziebart a lot of cars here around Chicago. Never noticed Zeibarted cars outliving others. Those plastic liners seem to help a lot to prevent wheelwell rust. I think GM really improved the metal/treatment sometime in the '90's, including the brake lines. Can't be sure about that, but the '90 Corsica is the only one I had to replace a brake line, when it was 18 years old. Then too, seems winters have been pretty mild the past 20-30 years, and you're not running through as much salt water. Also think the road crews got more scientific about how much salt they dump on the roads.

Reply to
Vic Smith

Do a Google for, Stacey David Gearz Dynamat. He is on the Speed channel once in a while. He also mentioned Lizardskin.

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Reply to
JR

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