OT Dims want to raise gas prices!

Surprise, Surprise....
The Dims want to raise taxes and gas prices....
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CONGRESS_ENERGY?SITEr19&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE ÞFAULT&CTIME 06-11-19-03-54-44

--

Scott in Florida


Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CONGRESS_ENERGY?SITEr19&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE ÞFAULT&CTIME 06-11-19-03-54-44

That's not what the article says, dummy. And, you have no evidence that price hikes would be the result of the legislation described.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

1) Without knowing the actual numbers, you have no way of knowing what impact the increased taxes would have on the final price.
2) The article said nothing about the government setting prices, nor was it even implied.
3) The major price swings we've seen over the past year were due more to speculation in oil futures. The most recent drop, however, came as the result of the success of Jack #2 well, by Chevron.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Over 50 cents of the recent price swings was based on vapor. No decrease in supply, no threat to supply, no material change to the business at all. Purely game playing. You would never put up with that with any other product, if you had a choice.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Situation: You go car shopping and find the best price for the one you want: $22,000.00. You need to wait a week for a CD to mature, so you can make the downpayment. During that week, the manufacturer's stock price jumps from $40 to $60 for whatever reason. You go back to the car dealer with your downpayment and you are told that the price of the car is now $27,000.00.
What would you do?
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Why is it absurd? Here's something you have heard in news headlines plenty of times: "Oil jumped another $2 a barrel today, on concerns over increased violence in Iraq".
Where did the "jump" originate, and with WHOSE fears? What general category of people had these fears?

Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You have nailed the libs to the wall.
It is amazing how gullible they are.
Talk about sheep........
--

Scott in Florida


Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

My sister refers to them as Sheeple.
Charles of Schaumburg
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Dense? No. I knew the answer to my questions. I wanted to make sure you knew them, too. Why? Believe it or not, there are people in these newsgroups who claim they were unaware of not just the effects of oil speculation, but of the very practice itself.
Let's try this, professor: It's a generally accepted fact that terrorists could do something in the Middle East, like successfully cripple enough Saudi facilities, and the result would be a price so high that it would seriously hurt our economy. Let's assume that you and I both buy into this idea, which is an accurate one.
Most sane people believe that it would be disastrous to allow terrorists to manipulate our economy in this way. Let's assume you also believe this.
How is this so different from commodities investors meddling in the single most important resource we know of at the moment?

Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I guess we'll agree to disagree on whether it's appropriate for investors to meddle in the price of important commodities, especially when those investors are in no way connected with the oil industry. We're talking about stockbrokers here. No business can completely control every factor related to production. But, there's a short list of businesses whose prices are artificially manipulated by gambling. Taken to the extreme, one could imagine the ski resort industry buying and selling futures on snow. Why not? There's a futures market in pork bellies, which is also absurd, considering that there's almost nothing about the meat industry that cannot be controlled.

Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I'm not sure where you get this "our economic system" thing from. The vast majority of businesses in this country function just fine with the existence of futures markets related to the products in question. And, you're right - there's nothing wrong with making a profit. But, if you invest in Intel stock and make a killing or lose your shirt, it affects only you (and maybe your kid's college money). But, it has no effect on the computer I buy next week, or the 10,000 CPU chips that Dell buys for its production.
The oil speculators we're talking about are different. Their trading reflects their opinions. That affects the price we pay. There needs to be a disconnect between those two unrelated things.
I think grapefruit should be cheaper. It's not.

Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Do you not see that securities traders are in a completely separate business from the oil industry, and that this commodities arrangement is truly different from other businesses?

Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
What business are you in?

Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I asked because I'm curious how much control your business has in terms of setting prices for its goods and/or services. It would help to know what business you're in.

Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
What if a third party, totally unrelated to your industry, decided to place bets on the availability of your raw materials, and forced your prices in arbitrary directions which affected your reputation with your customers? Would this be an acceptable change in your business environment?

Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The need to hedge would also affect your cost.
The vast majority of businesses price their goods according to the actual cost of raw materials and labor, not according to what a bunch of suits on an exchange believe *might* happen in the future.

Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Better to foist a 50 cent price swing on your customers, based on absolutely no changes in your raw supply, or in the historical demand for the product. This makes customers feel good.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Where did you ever get that idea? Pricing is set by the market, period. Economies of scale determines build costs. Market forces determine retail pricing The cost of building the average Lexus is only a relative few thousands more than the Camry on which it is based, yet the retail price is many thousands more than the Camry. A Corolla is priced at various levels, depending on which market it is being sold.
mike

Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
To put this another way:
Show me a business that uses middlemen who add no value of any kind, and we've got a perfect study subject for a business school. Lesson: How not to run a business.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:20:26 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Joe,
I have to believe that you know nothing about how commodities exchanges work.
I work for a Philippine based company that builds custom databases for the legal industry. Part of my job is to hedge against currency fluctuations which can affect whether a particular contract is profitable or not.
Just to simplify, imagine that we have a six month project worth USD $30M payable upon completion. At current exchange rates that's about 50 PHP per usd or 1.5B PHP. The exchange rate is dropping so I can sell PHP futures against USD. If rates fall to, say, 40 PHP per USD our project will lose 300M PHP which I'll make up, more or less, on the futures exchange when I buy out my futures contract at what will then be market price. The speculators who were betting that the currency would move the other direction will be footing the bill.
On the other hand if the rate floats to 60 PHP per USD I'll make about the same amount on the programming contract - but pay out the "extra profit" to the lucky speculator who holds the other end of my futures contract.
I don't really care because I've locked in my contract price for the job - regardless of what the currency fluctuations do over the next six months my profit is guaranteed. I've shifted my risk to the speculators, those deep pocket, manipulative Capitalists, and thankful to do so. I'm in the software business not the money business.
This would hold true with any commodity - oil or even pork bellies - better known as bacon to you and me. The last is subject to great price swings with seasonal variations and changes in price of corn - when hog food is expensive pigs get slaugtered - yet demand remains steady year round. That, my naive friend, is why there's a futures market for that strange item.
--
Mike Harris
Austin TX
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
✖
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.