Toyota Camry 1997 causes headache and bitter taste on my tongue. Pls Help!

Hi all,

I just bought a used Toyota Camry 1997, LE, 4 Cylinders, 2.2L, with AC,

4 doors. It runs great and smooth and has only 70Kmi. The problem is anytime I drive it, I have headache and bitter taste on my tongue. I brought the car to several repair shops but all said there is no problem (no leak) with the exhaust system or cooling system. Because I have bitter taste on my tongue, I suspect it is leaking coolant steam (small amount) that causes my headache. CO (carbon monoxide) may also be the cause, but I heard that CO causes headache but not bitter taste on the tongue. What happens to my car? Please help!

Madison18

Reply to
Madison18
Loading thread data ...

Do you smell anything at all when driving? How about when putting the air intake into RECIRC mode instead of FRESH air... same effect?

Reply to
onehappymadman

If I paid to much for a car, or had buyers remorse it might leave me with a bitter taste and headache.

If it is an antifreeze leak your radiator and expansion tank will drop lower. Get a battery powered Co meter if you really think it is a exaust leak. It is possible the heater core broke and leaked and residue is evaporating or shampoo out of seats and carpet. Get a friend with a good nose to help find the cause. Maybe something dead is buried under the rear seat.

Reply to
m Ransley

I have a similar problem with my 97 Camry. Whenever the air is coming into the cabin and I am sitting still there is an odor that smells like engine oil or such. When moving or system on RECIRC there is no such odor.

I have had it looked at also and they say there are no oil or coolant leaks. They suggested there was mold in the heater core and instructed me to use some sort of spray that was supposed to kill it . That didn't work.

The closest I have got to the source is the PCV valve right below the fresh air inlets. If I put my nose near it I think I smell the same odor. I have replaced it with a factory one but the problem remains. I think there is some sort of leak in the engine bay that gets sucked in through the vents when the fan is on. When the vehicle moves the odor is whisked away by the outside air. I don't think I have a heater core problem since when the outside air is shut off and the system recirculates there is no odor.

Good luck with your search and let us know what steps you take.

Reply to
badgolferman

Sounds like a perfect question for these guys:

formatting link
Thy joke around a lot, but I believe both hold a Ph.D from MIT, have been in the car business for decades, and generally have keen insigths to unusual car problems. Give 'em a call.

Reply to
Daniel

My heater smells like burnt oil too but it doesn't give me headaches or anything and after a while it seems to go away by itself. I never get any blue smoke when starting this car either.

If you find anything worthwhile let me know cause I tried all of what you did without real results.

Reply to
Maim Menu

They say coolant has a sweet taste - not bitter. That's why you don't want to leave any spills on the ground - pets may drink it - and it is poisonous. CO is odorless - that's why it is dangerous - not sure why you would experience a bitter taste from that, although the headache sounds right if you're breathing CO because it displaces oxygen in the bloodstream. Perhaps try one of those Home Depot type CO detectors designed for home use, and place it in the car. CO is what kills people when they sleep with a defective wall heater. Sometimes mechanics can be mistaken, and the headache could be a symptom of a seriously dangerous problem if one of the exhaust gaskets isn't sealing completely. More likely though, I would guess that you have an oil leak somewhere in the engine compartment, with a tiny amount of oil seeping onto the exhaust manifold or engine block. I can more readily see that giving the bitter taste since you don't specify oil type and burned oil does contain a small amount of ash. Most likely source would be the valve cover gasket - and seepage would be consistent with your stated mileage. I replaced the valve cover gasket on my four cylinder, and found the four 30mm spark plug tube nuts that hold the cover in place were all loose. Installed brand new factory fresh gasket, properly sealed around the cams with Toyota FIPG (liquid sealer) and apx. 20,000 miles later, noticed the hint of seepage beginning again. Re-checked the torque at the hold down nuts - and they were all loose again. Factory Service Manual lists 17 ft. lbs. I'm guessing the new gasket material compresses over time because both the head and valve cover are aluminum which have thermal movement with normal engine warming and cooling cycles. People have different sensitivities. Most older truck engines reek of burning oil smell and I don't think those guys get headaches, but you may have a sensitivity to it.

Reply to
Daniel

badgolferman wrote: snip

snip

You could be correct, the rubber strip at the rear of the engine compartment (where the hood stops just under the windshield) is supposed to seal off the engine compartment from the fresh air intakes. I've seen these get pulled loose, broken or stiff from age which can let vapors into fresh air intake. On my personal vehicles I spray this seal with silicone spray each fall when I do all the other door and trunk gaskets. HTH, davidj92

Reply to
davidj92

a.. Monday, January 30, 2006

Study finds toxic threat in auto interiors

Chemical industry disputes report on dangers; Volvo cited as leader in interior air quality.

Jeff Plungis / Detroit News Washington Bureau

Advertisement

Best and worst for toxic chemicals

Flame retardants Best: Hyundai, Volvo, BMW, Honda USA, Ford Worst: Mercedes, Chrysler, Toyota USA, Subaru, VW Plastic softeners Best: Volvo, BMW, VW, GM, Toyota USA Worst: Hyundai, Ford, Toyota, Chrysler, Subaru Source: Ecology Center

a.. Printer friendly version b.. Comment on this story c.. Send this story to a friend d.. Get Home Delivery WASHINGTON -- A report by an Ann Arbor environmental group that says toxic chemicals are present in automobile interiors at levels five to 10 times higher than those found in homes and offices has sparked protests from the chemical industry and interest from automakers.

The report, "Toxic at Any Speed," was released by the Ecology Center on Jan.

11, amid the din of the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

The report, based on samples of windshield film and dust samples from randomly selected cars made by 11 leading manufacturers, concludes there is a pervasive safety threat that few consumers know about: Cars can expose their occupants to worrisome levels of toxic chemicals, emitted from the materials used to make seating, carpets, arm rests and wire coverings.

The Environmental Protection Agency has called indoor air pollution one of the top five environmental risks to public health, said Jeff Gearhart, an Ecology Center researcher who co-wrote the report. According to the center's tests, car air quality is worse than what is typically found in buildings and far worse than outdoor air -- at least as far as two types of toxic chemicals are concerned.

The pattern of one of the chemicals cited in the report, a flame-retardant named decabrominated diphenyl ether, or deca-BDE, has been accumulating in the environment and is the subject of a growing number of studies, Gearhart said. The chemical has been linked to health effects in laboratory animals similar to other toxic chemicals, like slowing brain development and causing reproductive problems and cancer.

"They could create a legacy like PCBs," Gearhart said of the flame retardant BDE, referring to a now-banned toxic chemical that found its way up the food chain. "They have all the lineage of that type of environmental disaster. We think the writing is on the wall. The smart people within the auto industry know that."

The Ecology Center cited Ford subsidiary Volvo Car Corp. as an industry leader in following a policy to reduce flame-retardant chemicals as concern has grown in Europe. Volvo and other well-performing companies prove the feasibility of providing safer alternatives, Gearhart said.

After the report, Volvo issued a statement touting its models' "best interior air quality." The test scores were the result of a conscious company policy to reduce interior emissions and improve air filtering, the company said.

"In an age when many people suffer from asthma and allergies, it is only natural for Volvo cars to offer its customers a good environment even inside the car," said Anders Karrberg, Volvo's environmental director.

General Motors Corp. and BMW vehicles performed better than average for all chemicals tested. Mercedes, Chrysler, Toyota and Subaru had higher than average concentrations of both kinds of toxic chemicals.

Some companies had dramatically different results for different chemicals. Hyundai had the lowest score of the 11 auto companies tested for flame retardants -- with only a tiny trace equivalent to what is found outdoors. But it had the highest score for a toxic plastic softening group of chemicals called phthalates.

The Ecology Center said these chemicals have been linked to liver, kidney and reproductive problems in lab animals. In 2003, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said phthalates could cause developmental problems in children.

Hyundai officials met with the Ecology Center last week to explore ways to reduce their use of phthalates, Gearhart said.

But not everyone is convinced the chemicals cited in the study present a problem.

The Bromine Science and Environmental Forum, the industry association representing the four manufacturers of bromine-based flame retardants, said the Ecology Center was asking manufacturers to abandon a proven chemical for alternatives that may not be as effective. There were 297,000 car fires in the U.S. in 2004, the group said.

"Automobiles are significant heat sources and therefore require the most effective flame retardants available," forum chairman Raymond Dawson said in a statement.

And automakers have already agreed to phase out two of the three flame retardant chemicals cited in the report, said Eron Shosteck, Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers spokesman. The remaining chemical has been studied by the European Union for 10 years and has been proven safe, Shosteck said.

Even so, lawmakers and manufacturers around the world have attempted to reduce exposure to some of the chemicals cited by the Ecology Center.

Reach Jeff Plungis at (202) 662-8735 or snipped-for-privacy@detnews.com.

More Autos-Insider Headlines

begin 666 arrow-red.gif M1TE&.#EA"@`*`)$#`/_,S,PS,\P``/___R'Y! $```,`+ `````*``H```(7

9Q(XH87D"6X*035H;IG8+B5G*(B&B,Q0`.P`` ` end
Reply to
tj

This is a printer friendly version of an article from The Detroit News

To print this article open the file menu and choose Print.

Back

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Study finds toxic threat in auto interiors

Chemical industry disputes report on dangers; Volvo cited as leader in interior air quality.

Jeff Plungis / Detroit News Washington Bureau

January 30, 2006

WASHINGTON -- A report by an Ann Arbor environmental group that says toxic chemicals are present in automobile interiors at levels five to 10 times higher than those found in homes and offices has sparked protests from the chemical industry and interest from automakers.

The report, "Toxic at Any Speed," was released by the Ecology Center on Jan.

11, amid the din of the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

The report, based on samples of windshield film and dust samples from randomly selected cars made by 11 leading manufacturers, concludes there is a pervasive safety threat that few consumers know about: Cars can expose their occupants to worrisome levels of toxic chemicals, emitted from the materials used to make seating, carpets, arm rests and wire coverings.

The Environmental Protection Agency has called indoor air pollution one of the top five environmental risks to public health, said Jeff Gearhart, an Ecology Center researcher who co-wrote the report. According to the center's tests, car air quality is worse than what is typically found in buildings and far worse than outdoor air -- at least as far as two types of toxic chemicals are concerned.

The pattern of one of the chemicals cited in the report, a flame-retardant named decabrominated diphenyl ether, or deca-BDE, has been accumulating in the environment and is the subject of a growing number of studies, Gearhart said. The chemical has been linked to health effects in laboratory animals similar to other toxic chemicals, like slowing brain development and causing reproductive problems and cancer.

"They could create a legacy like PCBs," Gearhart said of the flame retardant BDE, referring to a now-banned toxic chemical that found its way up the food chain. "They have all the lineage of that type of environmental disaster. We think the writing is on the wall. The smart people within the auto industry know that."

The Ecology Center cited Ford subsidiary Volvo Car Corp. as an industry leader in following a policy to reduce flame-retardant chemicals as concern has grown in Europe. Volvo and other well-performing companies prove the feasibility of providing safer alternatives, Gearhart said.

After the report, Volvo issued a statement touting its models' "best interior air quality." The test scores were the result of a conscious company policy to reduce interior emissions and improve air filtering, the company said.

"In an age when many people suffer from asthma and allergies, it is only natural for Volvo cars to offer its customers a good environment even inside the car," said Anders Karrberg, Volvo's environmental director.

General Motors Corp. and BMW vehicles performed better than average for all chemicals tested. Mercedes, Chrysler, Toyota and Subaru had higher than average concentrations of both kinds of toxic chemicals.

Some companies had dramatically different results for different chemicals. Hyundai had the lowest score of the 11 auto companies tested for flame retardants -- with only a tiny trace equivalent to what is found outdoors. But it had the highest score for a toxic plastic softening group of chemicals called phthalates.

The Ecology Center said these chemicals have been linked to liver, kidney and reproductive problems in lab animals. In 2003, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said phthalates could cause developmental problems in children.

Hyundai officials met with the Ecology Center last week to explore ways to reduce their use of phthalates, Gearhart said.

But not everyone is convinced the chemicals cited in the study present a problem.

The Bromine Science and Environmental Forum, the industry association representing the four manufacturers of bromine-based flame retardants, said the Ecology Center was asking manufacturers to abandon a proven chemical for alternatives that may not be as effective. There were 297,000 car fires in the U.S. in 2004, the group said.

"Automobiles are significant heat sources and therefore require the most effective flame retardants available," forum chairman Raymond Dawson said in a statement.

And automakers have already agreed to phase out two of the three flame retardant chemicals cited in the report, said Eron Shosteck, Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers spokesman. The remaining chemical has been studied by the European Union for 10 years and has been proven safe, Shosteck said.

Even so, lawmakers and manufacturers around the world have attempted to reduce exposure to some of the chemicals cited by the Ecology Center.

Reach Jeff Plungis at (202) 662-8735 or snipped-for-privacy@detnews.com.

begin 666 detlogoforprinter.gif M1TE&.#EAZP`J`,0``/___P```+:VML+"PN?GYTA(2*JJJF]O;]K:VBHRE,@`*'J* 7@M;[C)EAMNEX!X`S7=>TOQ[^G. MF@F#XCN.V[C9C=9-2P*,U1O 7NWDCADFRH:B>>GNY!TP"Z)_+:9 Q]4.!VLQ!QS-1L2B>.)M#ZKCKGCU MD'81H_*$*R13P!&:(813Y)SC_J4".E!!=FD0G% 00@ "*24JRKO0B M;AACD_]9S=%6`+>3Z+YYD*U&QC:;D \MY?E$[M)FH 8, MP!L+: snipped-for-privacy@.V:M6[0LG9,!C8DH(9\Y\N5"J(RB5EZH(82>09;]>*A%[X=.:S[8 MZ2M_+ DF0$2H(!5@678;!0$VR3;?9HT2 M!RL\C&:V1\>M"& .D)B$PHR2S@'\RY\`R

Reply to
tj

Update:

I found out that my headache and bitter taste on my tongue come from antifreeze steam coming from the cooling system. At room temperature, only sweet smell substance escapes the antifreeze giving the antifreeze its sweet smell. However, at high temperature, bitter-taste and toxic substance escapes the antifreeze and enters the cabin giving me my headache and bitter taste on my tongue.

I opened the hood while keeping the car running. I could smell the spoiling antifreeze (not sweet at all) all over the engine compartment. The upper radiator hose seems real hot and generates the smell of burning rubber. This may indicate that the coolant is too hot (but the temperature gauge shows normal half way).

Question: Is there anyway I can enable the radiator fan at a lower temperature so that the coolant does not boil like that?

Thanks, Madison18

Reply to
Madison18

When's the last time you changed the coolant? And did you make sure that it's in the right proportion to distilled water?

Reply to
mrdarrett

Hi mrdarr

I changed coolant the last time just 2 weeks ago. The ratio is less than 50/50 (i.e., more dilute than recommended).

Update:

Today, 2/24/06, I brought the car to a Toyota dealership. After 30 minutes of checking, they told me that they could smell antifreeze in engine compartment but the smell was due to new radiator, new hoses, new ... etc. and that the smell would go away after awhile. They said I am too sensitive to smell. So, it cost me $40 for nothing.

My approach: This weekend, I will flush the cooling system and switch from red antifreeze (DexCool) to green antifreeze and hope for the best. After this, there will be nothing more to do.

Madison18

Reply to
Madison18

The red stuff's better for your car, from what I hear.

Can you just drive with the windows down for a few months?

Lucky they only charged you $40. I took my camry in last year to try and figure out an oil leak... they wanted $90+ just to look at it. I said never mind, I can live with the leak (1 drop per day) and turned right around. :)

Reply to
onehappymadman

onehappymad,

Thanks for sharing.

Update:

This morning, I idled the car while sitting in it for 1 hour with different setting combinations I could think of (e.g., recirculate, fresh, high heat, low heat, no heat, low fan, high fan, defrost, foot, chest level air flow, etc) and had only minor bitter taste on my tongue and minor headache (compared with major bitter taste on my tongue and major headache after driving the car for only 15 minutes).

So, my conclusion is that there is nothing wrong with my heater core which is located behind the firewall (i.e., separated from the engine compartment by the firewall).

After idling the car for 1 hour, I opened the hood and could smell strong odor (not sweet) under the hood. So, my minor headache may be caused by the air leaks between the cabin and the engine compartment. Driving the car at high speeds increases these leaks and causes my major headache.

My next approach: switch to green antifreeze at low concentration. When summer comes (in a month), I will switch to pure water to see what happens.

For now, I have to drive with open windows.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Madison18

Reply to
Madison18

If the cooling system has had several components replaced and coolant was spilled while filling then you should be able to rinse most of the coolant off with a garden hose. You can place a plastic bag over the alternator, air intake and distributor then make sure oil fill caps and dipsticks are in place and spray the engine down as well. You might want to cover the under-hood fuse box as well and let car sit overnight after spraying. HTH, davidj92

Reply to
davidj92

davidj92:

Thanks for your advice. I am aware of the problems caused by spilled antifreeze while filling. I spilled antifreeze on my radiator several times and it took a lot of time for the spilled antifreeze to evaporate by itself. So I had to rinse off my radiator with water. I put water in a big empty drinking water bottle and just poured water on the radiator (with the coolant temp switch at the bottom of the radiator covered).

Update:

Yesterday, I did 1 flush (remove coolant from engine block) and 5 drains (add rinsing water to radiator, run the car, and remove rinsing water from radiator). After that, I wished I could have more time to find out if there is still the odor that caused my headache. But it is was too dark already and the temperature went down below freeze fast. So, I decided to put lowtox antifreeze in to prevent the water in my cooling system from freezing damaging my cooling system.

This morning, I tested run my car and some spilled low tox antifreeze evaporated and I could feel headache and bitter taste on my tongue. Conclusion: low tox is still toxic!

Next approach: identify the leaks on the firewall (firewall should be airtight) that allows odors from engine compartment to enter the cabin. Any suggestion?

Thanks, Madison18

Next approach:

rinsed off the radiator with water

Reply to
Madison18

There is a somewhat soft, maleable product, somewhat like a soft rubber, that many manufactures use to seal holes in firewalls. It usually stays soft for quite a few years, then gets hard and brittle. Check for this and/or rubber gaskets or bushings missing or broke. If you find any of these then you'll need to find a product that will withstand the heat and seal any holes. There is a low-expanding foam for houses, don't know what temperatures it will withstand. You could find some peel and stick products at shops that do air-conditioning work or glass work and possibly an upholstery shop might have a sound deadening/sealer product. Also, check the rubber gasket at the rear of the hood, just below the intake grill at the bottom of the windwhield. If it is broken or not in place, then fumes from engine compartment can enter through fresh air intakes under that grill. I've also seen these gaskets get hard, not seal and let fumes in from engine comp., they should be semi-soft and pliable. A final thought, don't remember in the thread if you've had the cooling system pressure checked. You could have a pin-hole in the heater core and getting fumes from there. If the system doesn't pass a pressure test you may have to dye-test to find a very small leak. HTH, davidj92

Reply to
davidj92

Hi davidj92:

You mentioned "dye-test" that sounds interesting. I think that may be the only way to find out. But what is it?

I brought the car to many shops and some of them did pressure test (they said so) and found no leak. I can smell antifreeze in the engine compartment. So, I just need to make the firewall airtight for now.

I taped seal the fresh air intake (under the windshield) and still smell antifreeze in cabin at high speeds. So, it must be the firewall leak.

I looked at the firewall and found no hole. So, even if I have the right material, I do not know where to apply it.

Please tell me more about the "dye-test".

Thanks, Madison18

Reply to
Madison18

You can purchase a dye that's made for cooling systems, they have different ones for oil or trans, and put it in system. Drive for a day or two, then look for the leak with an infrared light. You need to have the special light and special glasses that filter the infrared from your eyes. The light will make the dye illuminate like the black-light posters from the hippy days. (I never inhaled either. :-) You'll probably be better off taking it to a shop that has the equipment to do this. You can find leaks this way that you can't find any other way. HTH, davidj92

Reply to
davidj92

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.