1995 960 buy or not?

Funny this.. As you see from my sig, I have a 240 and a 960. Speaking from the heart I told my wife the other day that if something happened to the 960 I think I would get another 240. Cheaper to repair, more dependable (less to go wrong), and more spare parts at the wreckers. On the other hand, If I could get a manual gear box on a 960 it would hard to pass. They handle great, the wagons are stiffer than most sedans, and the six has a wide, smooth power band.

In this case I would pass. This is not the model of Volvo you want to get into without knowing the history. The overall visual condition seems to indicate that it has not been well cared for, and that could very well be an indicator of the mechanical condition as well.

If it is a low-mileage car (which I doubt) and has just led a tough life then it might be OK. And if you have the kind of money it takes to just drop it off at the shop and say "fix it" when something doesn't work, then for that money it might be worth the roll of the dice.

I will temper the above remarks by saying that working on most contemporary cars is a delicate thing- plastic is everywhere and it is really easy to break off tabs and mounts if you don't know what you are doing. In no time the thing can be a rattle trap.

if you really like it, take it to an independant shop and have then cehck bushings, shocks, driveshaft, etc., etc.

__ __ Randy & \ \/ /alerie's \__/olvos '90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate "Shelby" & "Kate"

Thanks for the reply Randy. Forgot to mention that the 960 has just under 115k miles on the clock.

Depending on where you are there should many nicer cars of that vintage for about the same money. Pass. Remember 960 = Nivomat rear shocks, but springs and conventional shocks can be put on striaght axle versions.

Bob

If you guys were looking to buy another brick tomorrow which model would you focus in on... the 900 series or a FWD 850? Pros and cons of each. Thanks again

Hello Wildcat:

Lamp lenses are expensive and at least here in the Northeast US extremely difficult to find used--thus one must go to the dealer.

On a 240 wagon the rear lenses (entire set) are $137 per side (left or right)

Interior is basically bad. Drivers leather seat is ripped

Seat recovering even in leather is not a big deal or hugely expensive. In my area it would run about $125 per seat.

and the power seat controls for the

Seat controls are not a big deal if you can do it yourself.

Leather trim around

A good upholstery shop can probably take care of that cheap or you can do it yourself with some spray adhesive.

Drivers seat

Possible all that is needed is cleaning and lubricating the rails.

Drivers door handle is loose.

If you have some patience the door handle issue will not be a big deal or expensive--IF you can do the work yourself.

Rest of the

You could clean that and re-dye it yourself for about $25 and some elbow grease.

Reupholstering is likely your best option.

Yes..I've seen this on quite a few cars and not just Volvos. Usual reason is tons of crud and spilled soft drinks and fast food--plus a lack of periodic lubrication.

The most

That could get expensive. Best case scenario is something like a bad oxygen sensor (about $150 plus labor.) Or is could be a bad catalytic converter ($200 or so plus labor). Or...it could be a bad MAF (Mass Air Flow Meter...but also often called the Mass Air Meter etc. These run anywhere from $240 to $525 depending on the one you need.

What I can't recall now is whether or not your vehicle year used OBD I...or OBD II.

If it's OBD I you are in good luck kas there is an on board diagnostic module you can have a look at yourself to determine the check engine light issue. If it's OBD II you'll have to pay for a scan (generally about $70 here even at an independent shop.)

What I do recall is that early 1995 940's had OBD I and then by March of that year had OBD II.

I asked

The rear wiper issue is a VERY common problem on older volvo wagons and I would nearly bet my next paycheck on what is causing the problem.

It's a water infiltration issue and the wiper "transmission" which looks a bit like a pantograph has frozen up. FORGET about trying to repair that transmission. I did and burned up a new motor. I thought I really had freed up the old transmission but not enough.

A new wiper transmission (for a '93 240) was $110.11 at my local dealer here iin Upstate NY and the motor assembly is about $237.

That said, I found a "bare" motor without bracket for about $78 at

Good folks with fast shipping and excellent customer service.

Cupholders? That I don't know...but it's possible it did not come with them. Understand that in many countries outside the US drivers are stunned that people would eat or drink in their cars while driving--so cupholders are not an issue for them.

I have no idea if these came standard with heated seats but do know they were available in 1993. Look for seat heater switches. On a 240 they are below each side of the parking brake assembly, but as I recall in a different location on the 940/960

From what you have described, the car does not sound like a deal to me even at $1800. I realize that NADA and KBB prices are higher--and NADA is the ONLY resource banks will use here in the US when making a loan....and while KBB might say private party value is in the range of $3,000 that is for a car in "fair" condition.

The one you are looking at as you have described it appears to be in "poor" condition and KBB does not even put a value on cars like that.

Let's assume it has 150,000 miles on the odometer--which would be typical for any car of that age in the US.

For a Volvo check to see if a myriad of work and services have been done. When was the timing belt last replaced (should be every 50K.)

And brakes and calipers and rotors? At 150 K or so one can expect to replace calipers and to also do rotors and pads--especially on the front.

Amd what about suspension bushings, ball joints etc?

And starter and alternator?

If you could let us know the actual model of 940 wagon and current mileage (plus your zipcode) I'm sure I and others here can help you come up with a better idea on value.

I feel taking it to that guy is a great idea.

NEVER buy with your heart.

I bought a 93 240 wagon for $500 last January and knew it needed some work but knew volvos. I now have a bit over $2000 invested and am facing spending about $200 more for new front calipers and rotors in the next few weeks but still think it was a great buy.

Since I bought it I have replaced the waterpump and timing belt, alternator, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, rear rotors and pads, alternator, battery, tires, heater/ac blower motor, ball joints, and a lot of little stuff. Serviced the tranny and rear end, pulled all the dorr panels and corrected issues with the central locking system, did a new tailgate wiring harness and more--but was able to do most of the work myself.

Here are a few pics:

OK...so I did spend another $580 recently but that was for new rims and studded snows--and I would have bought those for ANY car I own in this climate for the winter. I don't really include that in what I have invested for that reason.

Bottom line is that it is a great car and runs and rides like new now and will need only very basic inexpensive maintenance for the next

100,000 miles. For me that will be about ten years based on how many miles I drive yearly.

I'll post some good links for 940 things later tonight if I have time.

Cheerio,

Doc

wow Doc... thanks for the detailed info. Car is a 1995 960 and has 114500 on the odometer. My zip code is 40503 Lexington,KY If you were me and the mechanic says that she has some potential after inspecting her what would you offer this seller. Thanks again

wow Doc... thanks for the detailed info. Car is a 1995 960 and has 114500 on the odometer. My zip code is 40503 Lexington,KY If you were me and the mechanic says that she has some potential after inspecting her what would you offer this seller. Thanks again

Hello Wildcat:

Here's a link to Kelly Bluebook:

in mind I personally feel they inflate values, and that as youdescribed the vehicle it might not even fit into the "fair" category. Now let's have a look at NADA: &wPr=1&wPg 32OK, so NADA says RETAIL value is about $2700 or so if it is on adealer's lot--and if it's there it would have to be in PRISTINEcondition.

Forget about what a seller asks if it is over NADA value OR if the car does not fall into the "fair" category on KBB.

Cars--or anything else one might be selling--are only worth what a local buyer will pay. I have a neighbor a few streets away who has had their home on the market for a year and they asked me why it is not selling--as my next door neighbor sold a smaller house in hours for $205K.

Pretty simple: curb appeal, looks and pricing. They have vastly overpriced their house and now it has a stigma after being on the market for a year. Even realtors are not interested now in listing it.

Selling and buying is a pretty basic process. Set a fair price and describe the product honestly and you have a decent chance of a quick sale.

Example: I realized I had two snow tires that came with the 240 that had seen one light season at best. I prefer aggressive studded snows

I put the tires for sale on Craigslist and was honest and accurate about condition and made clear my fair price and location.

Hours later I had a buyer who showed up and then also paid full asking price. $60. So to me that means I have now paid $440 for the 93 240.

Timing is everything. Snowing like hell here now and it's more than possible the tires he needed are no longer available locally

I know my brother had to pay about $200 extra last December as he waited to buy his snows.

Glad I got mine in time. Bought 4 Snowtrakkers and had them studded. Great traction and stopping on ice.

BTW..Snowtrakkers are-- as I now find out-- manufactured by a subsidiary of Goodyear in Canada and the tread pattern and design were copied by Bridgestone for the Blizzak series.

Thing is the Snowtrakkers use a softer compound and thus have a much better bite.

May take a month and some weather for me to come up with a decision--but so far these seem to be as good or better than the Nokian Hakkas I ran in the past--and at less than half the price.

Bottom Line?

I've not seen the car but would ask a LOT of questions and make sure the tech REALLY knows Volvos. It's all the little parts that can eat you alive.

If you were me and the mechanic says that she has some potential after

I'd probably offer far less than considered value but it's all relative.

At the moment I'm looking at a 1994 960 and they are asking $7995 as it is at my local dealer. Thing is it has all service records from new and only 59K on the ODO..and the dealer has buyers waiting in line for my 240 wagon if I choose to sell or trade--and they will be able to sell it for $8,000.

If I get the 960 for 7K it may be a done deal---or may not. 240's are now worth more than newer models if they are cars with good provenance like mine,

I have nearly all service records since new and that adds a great deal of value to a car that is already in fine condition.

Have a nice night! Getting cold here and will go below zero in an hour. Have to go clean the flame sensor on my new furnace as I already see issues.

Cheerio,

Doc

Personally I'd pass on this one, I don't mind a car in need of mechanical work, but the trashed interior could be *very* expensive to make it nice again and if it's that bad on a car only 10 years old you have to wonder how well the mechanicals have been looked after. I haven't seen it myself, but from here it just smells of neglect.

900 series turbo is what I'd be looking at, at least if I could find the needed bits to convert the slushbox to a manual. They're nice looking cars too, just a 740 with a minor cosmetic facelift but the end result is nice.

I like the 850's too but I still prefer the old RWD designs.

I might offer them $1500 as a project car and see what they say, but look around first and see what a 960 in better condition goes for.

Personally I would stay away from a car as trashed as the one you are talking about. Find a well loved, well cared for higher mileage car. They are out there, but take some looking for.

John

Hello Wildcat:

John and a few others brought up a good point I forgot to mention:

If the interior of a car is trashed, what are the chances that the owner was meticulous about maintenance on schedule?

In my opinion, not very good. To me that smells like an owner who only fixes somthing when it breaks--and that can leave to expensive issues down the road.

While I knew my 240 wagon was going to need work, it was sound and most of the service records from new came with the car. There were a few gaps but not many--and to me that was and is still important.

Good luck in your search.

Doc

thanks for all the replies. Took the car tomy Volvo mechanic yesterday and he noted the following problems with the car.

1.) O2 sensor faulty- engine running super rich and fouling the plugs. Also 4 other generic ignition faults. 2.) Power seat motor is totally seized up. Seat is basically trapped up against the steering wheel. 3.) Upper oil pan seal is leaking- Have to pull the engine to fix this one! 4.) Ball joints need replacing 5.) Radiator is leaking in two different places. Replace 6.) Both reay shock absorbers are totally shot and need replaced. Not Nivomat though. 7.) Tranny fluid looks like motor oil. He said the tranny probably wont make it another 30k miles.

Total cost for repairs is 2400.00 USD!!

This does not include any refurbishing of the rough interior or any other problems that may pop up in the near future.

Mechanics advise to me was, "If you are being given the car for free its a good deal... otherwise....PASS!!!!"

Thanks again

The "running super rich" is serious. if it has been going on for any length of time it could have caused accelerated wear to teh rings and cylinders by washing off the oil film.

Makes it difficult to test drive!!

Easy and cheap.

Easy but not real cheap.

Easy and about $90-150 or so

Or maybe not another 3,000. Expensive.

That would be a fairly good deal actually.. if the car was about $300. On the other hand, for about $3000-5000 you can get a low mileage, excellent condition 240 which is more economical to work on, more dependable, and easier to find second-hand parts for as well.

Figure about $1500 for a cloth interior job (as a rough estimate). Double it for leather- I am just guessing.

I totally agree. The 960s are good cars but need to be kept up. particularly fluid changes. The tranny fluid condition alone is reason to pass on this car.

__ __ Randy & \ \/ /alerie's \__/olvos '90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate "Shelby" & "Kate"

Yikes, that poor car sounds even more trashed than I had expected. I wonder how often it had oil changes, the inside of that engine probably looks like it has 400,000 miles on it.

I think that I would steer clear of this one. Although one of the posters who replied said that many of the deficiencies can be done by you or economically by upholstery shops, etc, this car obviously has had indifferent or negligent upkeep for a really long time. I bought my '84 Silver two-door turbo new and it has none of the obvious "deferred maintenance" (As we call it in real estate when we look at a house that has obviously had no care.). When you see the obvious, just think of what you can't see...like maybe ten or fifteen thousand miles between oil changes. Sure, you can replace lenses, but what about the reflectors that have been exposed to the elements as a result? About ten years ago, I saw a broken right directional signal lense and went to the dealer and bought a left AND a right lense just to "even them up" and have the clarity of both lenses equal. I think that I'd leave the "rescue" of this used and abused car to someone else.

Wildcat wrote: